[98176] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Last X and testament?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh)
Sat Mar 15 12:11:40 2014
From: lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 12:11:07 -0400
To: Klingon Mailing List <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <1394712203.73369.YahooMailNeo@web133103.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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In all these cases, someone other than the dead guy continued a mission =
that they were already engaged in, themselves. They may be inspired by =
memories of the dead guy and act to continue the mission, and they may =
call upon others to also act in favor of the mission, recalling the dead =
guy for inspiration, but that is quite alien to the concept of a living =
guy writing out a list of who gets to own his stuff once he=92s dead, =
and, once he dies, having living people follow the wishes of the dead =
guy who wrote the list, because the list says so, and if you ignore the =
list, other living people will call their lawyers and sue you.
That is a last will and testament.
I really think that Klingon mentality is closer to, =93Hmm. I really =
liked SarIS a lot before he died next to me in battle, but the battle=92s =
over now, he=92s dead, and those look like nice boots. I wonder if they =
are my size=85=94 I mean, they probably wouldn=92t fit is son, right?
We say that possession is 90% of the law. I think that among Klingons, =
the ability to possess something is closer to 100%, in the sense that =
dead people can=92t meaningfully possess anything.
Please don=92t confuse the concepts of a mission and a will. A mission =
stands for itself, even when someone who suggested it passes on. A will =
stands for nothing but the property rights of someone who isn=92t there =
anymore to possess the property. It extends property rights beyond life. =
That=92s not a mission.
People didn=92t follow Kahless because he was Kahless. They followed him =
because his mission was honorable. His example inspires us to continue =
that mission and maintain that honor. He earned the respect we pay to =
him. There wasn=92t some pre-existing right of his to write out a list =
of commands that the rest of us would be legally required to follow, =
especially in the area of who gets to have his stuff.
We are Klingons, not Ferengi. Accumulating wealth and passing it on to =
generations based upon birth and not merit is not an honorable path. Do =
we support the idea of someone not working because he simply lives off =
the wealth of his grandfather? We think it is good that later =
generations do not have to earn anything because of their legal =
inheritance?
This is not our culture. Language and culture are of the same root.
lojmIt tI=92wI=92 nuv =91utlh
Door Repair Guy, Retired Honorably
On Mar 13, 2014, at 8:03 AM, Fiat Knox <fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> After Gorkon's assassination, his daughter Azetbur continued to sue =
for peace with the Federation, leading to her presiding over the =
successful treaty meeting at Camp Khitomer. In a way, that was an act =
performed in fulfillment of a last will.
>=20
> The ultimate last will is, of course, Kahless' himself.
>=20
> "Kahless left us, all of us, a powerful legacy. A way of thinking and =
acting that makes us Klingon. If his words hold wisdom and his =
philosophy is honorable, what does it matter if he returns? What is =
important is that we follow his teachings. Perhaps the words are more =
important than the man."
>=20
>=20
> On Thursday, 13 March 2014, 11:25, "Michael Roney, Jr. PKT" =
<nahqun@gmail.com> wrote:
> Let's take a look at some Klingons that have died.
>=20
> K'Ehleyr's last act was to make sure that her son was taken care of by =
Worf.
> Despite Worf's prior objections, he claimed his son.
>=20
> Before Worf went in for spinal surgery, he made sure that his son
> would be cared for by Troi.
>=20
> K'empec's last act was to assign Picard as Arbiter of Succession.
> This is probably the strongest example showing that Klingons care
> about "last wishes".
>=20
>=20
> ~naHQun
>=20
> --=20
> ~Michael Roney, Jr.
>=20
> http://www.twitter.com/roneyii
> https://plus.google.com/+MichaelRoneyJr/
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><div>In all these cases, someone other than the dead =
guy continued a mission that they were already engaged in, themselves. =
They may be inspired by memories of the dead guy and act to continue the =
mission, and they may call upon others to also act in favor of the =
mission, recalling the dead guy for inspiration, but that is quite alien =
to the concept of a living guy writing out a list of who gets to own his =
stuff once he=92s dead, and, once he dies, having living people follow =
the wishes of the dead guy who wrote the list, because the list says so, =
and if you ignore the list, other living people will call their lawyers =
and sue you.</div><div><br></div><div>That is a last will and =
testament.</div><div><br></div><div>I really think that Klingon =
mentality is closer to, =93Hmm. I really liked SarIS a lot before he =
died next to me in battle, but the battle=92s over now, he=92s dead, and =
those look like nice boots. I wonder if they are my size=85=94 I mean, =
they probably wouldn=92t fit is son, right?</div><div><br></div><div>We =
say that possession is 90% of the law. I think that among Klingons, the =
ability to possess something is closer to 100%, in the sense that dead =
people can=92t meaningfully possess =
anything.</div><div><br></div><div>Please don=92t confuse the concepts =
of a mission and a will. A mission stands for itself, even when someone =
who suggested it passes on. A will stands for nothing but the property =
rights of someone who isn=92t there anymore to possess the property. It =
extends property rights beyond life. That=92s not a =
mission.</div><div><br></div><div>People didn=92t follow Kahless because =
he was Kahless. They followed him because his mission was honorable. His =
example inspires us to continue that mission and maintain that honor. He =
earned the respect we pay to him. There wasn=92t some pre-existing right =
of his to write out a list of commands that the rest of us would be =
legally required to follow, especially in the area of who gets to have =
his stuff.</div><div><br></div><div>We are Klingons, not Ferengi. =
Accumulating wealth and passing it on to generations based upon birth =
and not merit is not an honorable path. Do we support the idea of =
someone not working because he simply lives off the wealth of his =
grandfather? We think it is good that later generations do not have to =
earn anything because of their legal =
inheritance?</div><div><br></div><div>This is not our culture. Language =
and culture are of the same root.</div><br><div>
<div><div>lojmIt tI=92wI=92 nuv =91utlh</div><div>Door Repair Guy, =
Retired Honorably</div></div><div><br></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On Mar 13, 2014, at 8:03 AM, Fiat Knox <<a =
href=3D"mailto:fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk">fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); =
font-family: garamond, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 18pt;">After =
Gorkon's assassination, his daughter Azetbur continued to sue for peace =
with the Federation, leading to her presiding over the successful treaty =
meeting at Camp Khitomer. In a way, that was an act performed in =
fulfillment of a last will.<br><br>The ultimate last will is, of course, =
Kahless' himself.<br><br>"<i>Kahless left us, </i>all of us,<i> a =
powerful legacy. A way of=20
thinking and acting that makes us Klingon. If his words hold wisdom and=20=
his philosophy is honorable, what does it matter if he returns? What is=20=
important is that we follow his teachings. Perhaps the words are more=20
important than the man.</i>"<br><div style=3D"display: block;" =
class=3D"yahoo_quoted"> <br> <br> <div style=3D"font-family: garamond, =
new york, times, serif; font-size: 18pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: =
HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, =
Sans-Serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2"> On Thursday, 13 March 2014, 11:25, "Michael Roney, Jr. PKT" =
<<a href=3D"mailto:nahqun@gmail.com">nahqun@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<br> </font> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid =
rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: =
5px;"> <div class=3D"y_msg_container">Let's take a look at some =
Klingons that have died.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">K'Ehleyr's =
last act was to make sure that her son was taken care of by Worf.<br =
clear=3D"none">Despite Worf's prior objections, he claimed his son.<br =
clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Before Worf went in for spinal =
surgery, he made sure that his son<br clear=3D"none">would be cared for =
by Troi.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">K'empec's last act was to =
assign Picard as Arbiter of Succession.<br clear=3D"none">This is =
probably the strongest example showing that Klingons care<br =
clear=3D"none">about "last wishes".<br clear=3D"none"><br =
clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">~naHQun<br clear=3D"none"><br =
clear=3D"none">-- <br clear=3D"none">~Michael Roney, Jr.<br =
clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"http://www.twitter.com/roneyii" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.twitter.com/roneyii</a><br clear=3D"none"><a =
shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://plus.google.com/+MichaelRoneyJr/" =
target=3D"_blank">https://plus.google.com/+MichaelRoneyJr/</a><div =
class=3D"yqt0513163779" id=3D"yqtfd07687"><br clear=3D"none"><br =
clear=3D"none">_______________________________________________<br =
clear=3D"none">Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br clear=3D"none"><a =
shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" =
href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br =
clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" =
target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br=
clear=3D"none"></div><br><br></div> </blockquote> </div> </div> =
</div> =
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