[98155] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Last X and testament?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Mon Mar 10 09:33:56 2014
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 13:33:39 +0000
In-Reply-To: <BAY179-W6185AF48C66FBCB7279F9FAA750@phx.gbl>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Everyone has made some good points, but as QeS pointed out: he's translatin=
g an existing text about an alien (at least, to the Klingons) culture. He =
needs a word or phrase to use repeatedly, after having been explained in a =
footnote to the Klingon reader who may be unfamiliar with the concept of a =
will and testament.
You might be able to do something with {chaw'} "permit, ticket, card, deed"=
(n) - although it does seem to imply a document issued by a higher authori=
ty. Known examples:
cha'puj vIngevmeH chaw' HInobneS
Give me a permit to sell dilithium, your honor. PK
nuqDaq chaw' vIje'
Where can I buy a ticket? (TNK)
chaw'vam yIpol 'ej SIbI'Ha' yIlo' pagh 'oH yImech
This card may be kept until needed or traded. MKE
HIjmeH chaw'
stamp TNK
Huch chaw'
credit card TNK
leng chaw'
passport TNK
yer ghajwI' chaw'
title deed (MKE)
cha'maH chorgh yer ghajwI' chaw' 'echletHommey
28 Title Deed cards. MKE
'elmeH chaw'
ticket (WSC)
'elmeH chaw'mey je'lu'ta'bogh
will-call tickets (WSC)
And speaking of official documents, how about just {ghItlh Qav} "final manu=
script" which can be referred to as simply {ghItlh} "the manuscript, the do=
cument", {ghItlhvetlh}, {ghithvam}, etc. after it's been introduced (and ex=
plained)? Are there any other manuscripts that play an important role in t=
he story?
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
From: Rohan Fenwick [mailto:qeslagh@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 5:54 AM
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Last X and testament?
ghItlhpu' Alex, jatlh:
> With no noun form for ra' command (v) apparent, a title such as
> {ra'mey Qav} "final orders" would be a bit problematical. But a
> Will is not just a list of stuff to be given away; it's a set of final
> commands. "Howl for me in the traditional manner," "Feast and
> sing songs of my deeds in the Great Hall at High Sun" and all that.
> If there were a noun form for command it'd be easy - {ra'mey Qav
> tetlh}. Perhaps {tetlh Qav} or {Hegh tetlh}?
Hrm. You raise some good thoughts there. What about using {ra'} as a purpos=
e clause? {ra'meH tetlh} or {ra'meH tetlh Qav}, maybe? Or not restricting i=
t to a written document necessarily, {ra'meH nab Qav}?
QeS
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Everyone has made some good=
points, but as QeS pointed out: he’s translating an existing text ab=
out an alien (at least, to the Klingons) culture. He needs a
word or phrase to use repeatedly, after having been explained in a footnot=
e to the Klingon reader who may be unfamiliar with the concept of a will an=
d testament.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">You might be able to do som=
ething with {chaw’} “permit, ticket, card, deed” (n) R=
11; although it does seem to imply a document issued by a higher authority.=
Known
examples:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:Courier">cha'puj vInge=
vmeH chaw' HInobneS</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:Courier">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier">Give me a permit=
to sell dilithium, your honor. PK<br>
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"=
;">nuqDaq chaw' vIje'</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier Ne=
w"">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
Where can I buy a ticket? (TNK)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
<br>
<b><span style=3D"color:red">chaw'vam yIpol 'ej SIbI'Ha' yIlo' pagh 'oH yIm=
ech</span></b>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
This card may be kept until needed or traded. MKE<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:Courier;color:red">HIj=
meH chaw'</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-family:Courier">
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:Courier">stamp TNK</span>=
<span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"=
;;color:red">Huch chaw'</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-family:"Couri=
er New"">
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
credit card TNK<br>
<br>
<b><span style=3D"color:red"><o:p></o:p></span></b></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"=
;;color:red">leng chaw'</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-family:"Couri=
er New"">
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
passport TNK<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"=
;;color:red">yer ghajwI' chaw'</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t;Courier New"">
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
title deed<i> (</i>MKE)<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"=
;;color:red"> cha'maH chorgh yer ghajwI' chaw' 'echletHommey</span></=
b><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
28 Title Deed cards. MKE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
<br>
</span><strong><span style=3D"font-family:Courier;color:#C00000">'elmeH cha=
w'</span></strong><strong><span style=3D"font-family:Courier">
<o:p></o:p></span></strong></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><strong><span style=3D"font-family:Courier;font-weig=
ht:normal">ticket (WSC)</span></strong><span style=3D"font-family:Courier">=
<br>
<br>
<strong><span style=3D"font-weight:normal"><o:p></o:p></span></strong></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><strong><i><span style=3D"font-family:Courier;font-w=
eight:normal"> </span></i></strong><b><span style=3D"font-family:"=
;Courier New"">'elmeH chaw'mey je'lu'ta'bogh
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"=
;"> </span></b><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"=
;">will-call tickets (WSC)</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">And speaking of official do=
cuments, how about just {ghItlh Qav} “final manuscript” which c=
an be referred to as simply {ghItlh} “the manuscript, the document=
221;,
{ghItlhvetlh}, {ghithvam}, etc. after it’s been introduced (and expl=
ained)? Are there any other manuscripts that play an important role i=
n the story?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:black">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:black">Voragh<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:black">Ca'Non Master of the Klingo=
ns<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
>
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4.0pt">
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0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Rohan Fe=
nwick [mailto:qeslagh@hotmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 09, 2014 5:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Last X and testament?<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri","=
;sans-serif"">ghItlhpu' Alex, jatlh:<br>
> With no noun form for ra' command (v) apparent, a title such as<br>
> {ra'mey Qav} "final orders" would be a bit problematical. Bu=
t a<br>
> Will is not just a list of stuff to be given away; it's a set of final=
<br>
> commands. "Howl for me in the traditional manner," "Fea=
st and<br>
> sing songs of my deeds in the Great Hall at High Sun" and all tha=
t.<br>
> If there were a noun form for command it'd be easy - {ra'mey Qav<br>
> tetlh}. Perhaps {tetlh Qav} or {Hegh tetlh}?<br>
<br>
Hrm. You raise some good thoughts there. What about using {ra'} as a purpos=
e clause? {ra'meH tetlh} or {ra'meH tetlh Qav}, maybe? Or not restricting i=
t to a written document necessarily, {ra'meH nab Qav}?<br>
<br>
QeS <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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