[98080] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qoH SuS je bopbogh lut'e'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rohan Fenwick)
Tue Feb 25 06:21:50 2014
From: Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 21:21:31 +1000
In-Reply-To: <CAG84SOt8COz8jdBphC8RVo1SsbrOzOwuft91JkDC1wcjjd3w6A@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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ghItlhpu' nIqolay=2C jatlh:
> we have a word for "brick" and not one for "mortar".
vIjangpu' jIH=2C jIjatlh:
> Well... no=2C not strictly. {ngogh} is really more "block" or "chunk" tha=
n
> "brick" specifically=3B we've seen it used to describe=2C among other thi=
ngs=2C
> pillows and loaves of bread.
mujang je ghaH=2C jatlh:
> True. I wanted to preserve the "stone and ____" structure of the
> sentence and couldn't think of any other existing words that could be
> conceivably be used in a wall=2C
Two alternatives spring to mind. The only other specific construction mater=
ial item we have is {majyang} "tile". But there is also {baS} "metal"=3B an=
cient societies on Earth would often stabilise stone constructions with met=
al clamps or staples between blocks.
nIqolay:
> ben law' QInlat veng ghoS jevbogh muD.
jIH:
> Hm. I'm not overly comfortable with {muD} to mean a specific weather
> phenomenon - only the weather in general. {jevbogh SuS} is probably all y=
ou
> need here.
nIqolay:
> I thought that the implicit subject for weather verbs was {muD}=2C
Well=2C we really don't know that. There is an interesting example of usage=
from the paq'batlh:
chaHDaq SIStaHvIS negh 'Iw
"while the soldiers' blood rained upon them"
(paq'raD 13.15)
taH:
> {muD} does seem more like it should apply to a general condition of
> being stormy=2C rather than a specific weather system considered as a
> single entity that could approach a place.
Yes=2C that was my thought too.
> (It makes me wish that there really was a noun for {jev}.)
Why not recast: {ben law' QInlat vengDaq tugh jevchoH} "many years ago=2C a=
t the city of Quin'lat=2C it was soon going to storm". Funnily enough=2C th=
ough=2C there is a noun "storm" attested in no' Hol:
'ach juqmut wob g'irDet=2C Dyav q'usru g'ir Dya
"the louder [the hearts] beat=2C the larger the storm became"
(paq'batlh prologue: 2.5-6)
Here {Dyav q'usru g'ir Dya} means "the storm's strength also increased"=2C =
where *Dyav "storm" can only be acting as a noun in a noun-noun compound.
QeS
=
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>ghItlhpu' nIqolay=2C jatlh:<br><=
div>>=3B we have a word for "brick" and not one for "mortar".<br><br>vIja=
ngpu' jIH=2C jIjatlh:<br>>=3B Well... no=2C not strictly. {ngogh} is real=
ly more "block" or "chunk" than<br>>=3B "brick" specifically=3B we've see=
n it used to describe=2C among other things=2C<br>>=3B pillows and loaves=
of bread.<br><br>mujang je ghaH=2C jatlh:<br>>=3B True. I wanted to pres=
erve the "stone and ____" structure of the<br>>=3B sentence and couldn't =
think of any other existing words that could be<br>>=3B conceivably be us=
ed in a wall=2C<br><br>Two alternatives spring to mind. The only other spec=
ific construction material item we have is {majyang} "tile". But there is a=
lso {baS} "metal"=3B ancient societies on Earth would often stabilise stone=
constructions with metal clamps or staples between blocks.<br><br>nIqolay:=
<br>>=3B ben law' QInlat veng ghoS jevbogh muD.<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B Hm.=
I'm not overly comfortable with {muD} to mean a specific weather<br>>=3B=
phenomenon - only the weather in general. {jevbogh SuS} is probably all yo=
u<br>>=3B need here.<br><br>nIqolay:<br>>=3B I thought that the implici=
t subject for weather verbs was {muD}=2C<br><br>Well=2C we really don't kno=
w that. There is an interesting example of usage from the paq'batlh:<br><br=
>chaHDaq SIStaHvIS negh 'Iw<br>"while the soldiers' blood rained upon them"=
<br>(paq'raD 13.15)<br><br>taH:<br>>=3B {muD} does seem more like it shou=
ld apply to a general condition of<br>>=3B being stormy=2C rather than a =
specific weather system considered as a<br>>=3B single entity that could =
approach a place.<br><br>Yes=2C that was my thought too.<br><br>>=3B (It =
makes me wish that there really was a noun for {jev}.)<br><br>Why not recas=
t: {ben law' QInlat vengDaq tugh jevchoH} "many years ago=2C at the city of=
Quin'lat=2C it was soon going to storm". Funnily enough=2C though=2C there=
is a noun "storm" attested in no' Hol:<br><br>'ach juqmut wob g'irDet=2C D=
yav q'usru g'ir Dya<br>"the louder [the hearts] beat=2C the larger the stor=
m became"<br>(paq'batlh prologue: 2.5-6)<br><br>Here {Dyav q'usru g'ir Dya}=
means "the storm's strength also increased"=2C where *Dyav "storm" can onl=
y be acting as a noun in a noun-noun compound.<br><br>QeS<br></div> =
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