[97962] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] romyo' julyet je: bI'reS
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (De'vID)
Mon Feb 3 17:07:05 2014
In-Reply-To: <BAY179-W1949BA8C1053B718C0E3A7AAA90@phx.gbl>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 23:06:44 +0100
From: "De'vID" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>
To: KLI <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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QeS 'utlh:
> romyo' julyet je: bI'reS
> nur rap lughajbogh cha' tuqmey tu'lu',
> vero'na' 'IHDaq qaS ghe'naQmaj Dun;
> muStaHghachDaj tIQvo' chenchoH Seng chu',
I don't think you can say {X-vo' chenchoH Y} unless X is a physical place.
I'd express this as {Y chenchoHmoH X}, but that messes up your rhyming
scheme.
QeS 'utlh:
> ghopDu' mIl HoQmoH quv ghajbogh 'Iw chun.
> HeghmoHbogh cha' gholpu'vam tuqmeyvaD
> yInnIS[1] bang chang'eng 'e' maq QI'tu' San.
> [1] The English here is "a pair of star-crossed lovers take their life",
in which "take their life" could carry meanings of both birth and suicide.
I couldn't work out a decent wordplay as written, but {yInnIS} "they need
to live" could alternately be read as {yIn nIS} "they disrupt lives".
{nargh yInchaj} "their lives appear/escape"? Just a thought.
QeS 'utlh:
> vangHa'pu' chaH: tIvup! cha' tuqchaj qaD,
> 'ej Heghchajmo' cha' tuq yol ngo' luvan.
> taHqu'taHbogh parmaqqayvetlh chuD QeH,
I had trouble understanding that {QeH} was a noun, rather than an adjective
modifying {chuD}. Also, possibly {chuD} is too broad for "parents". It
would also help to put in explicit plural markers.
QeS 'utlh:
> parmaqchaj'e' bejbogh Hegh je wImuch;
> yol Qaw' puq yIn lughanglu'pu'bogh neH,
Good contrast between {ghang} and {van} used two lines above.
QeS 'utlh:
> DaH vaSmajDaq cha' rep lutvam wIruch.[2]
> [2] Though strictly we don't have canon for it, I like using {ruch} in
this way. From the glosses "proceed", "go ahead", "do it", and the sense of
the canon examples we do have, I don't think a transitive sense of "get on
with" (as ?{Qu'lIj yIruch} "get on with your mission!") is a long stretch.
?{Qu'lIj yIruch} looks to me like it's missing a verb. I would write this
as {Qu'lIj yIchav, yIruch!} ?{lutvam wIruch} looks to me like it's missing
something for the same reason. What are we doing with {lut}? {bej}? {ja'}?
{much?}
I interpret {targhlIj yIngagh, yIruch} as {targhlIj yIngagh, [targhlIj
Dangagh 'e'] yIruch}, where the part in [brackets] is implicit. But I could
be wrong in my interpretation.
QeS 'utlh:
> rIn bI'reS, 'ach vay' Qoybe'lu'pu'chugh,
> tuvchugh teSDu', yajmoHjaj muchmaj Dugh.
The original is directed to the watcher, rather than an indefinite person,
and I think it's better if it's kept the same.
> In English:
>
> Two households, both alike in dignity,
> In fair Verona, where we lay our scene,
> From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
> Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.
> From forth the fatal loins of these two foes
> A pair of star-cross'd lovers take their life;
> Whose misadventured piteous overthrows
> Do with their death bury their parents' strife.
> The fearful passage of their death-mark'd love,
> And the continuance of their parents' rage,
> Which, but their children's end, nought could remove,
> Is now the two hours' traffic of our stage;
> The which if you with patient ears attend,
> What here shall miss, our toil shall strive to mend.
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De'vID
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<p dir=3D"ltr"><br>
QeS 'utlh:<br>
> romyo' julyet je: bI'reS</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">> nur rap lughajbogh cha' tuqmey tu'lu',<br>
> vero'na' 'IHDaq qaS ghe'naQmaj Dun;<br>
> muStaHghachDaj tIQvo' chenchoH Seng chu',</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I don't think you can say {X-vo' chenchoH Y} unless =
X is a physical place. I'd express this as {Y chenchoHmoH X}, but that =
messes up your rhyming scheme.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">QeS 'utlh:<br>
> ghopDu' mIl HoQmoH quv ghajbogh 'Iw chun.<br>
> HeghmoHbogh cha' gholpu'vam tuqmeyvaD<br>
> yInnIS[1] bang chang'eng 'e' maq QI'tu' San.<br>
> [1] The English here is "a pair of star-crossed lovers take their=
life", in which "take their life" could carry meanings of b=
oth birth and suicide. I couldn't work out a decent wordplay as written=
, but {yInnIS} "they need to live" could alternately be read as {=
yIn nIS} "they disrupt lives".</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">{nargh yInchaj} "their lives appear/escape"? Just =
a thought.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">QeS 'utlh:<br>
> vangHa'pu' chaH: tIvup! cha' tuqchaj qaD,<br>
> 'ej Heghchajmo' cha' tuq yol ngo' luvan.<br>
> taHqu'taHbogh parmaqqayvetlh chuD QeH,</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I had trouble understanding that {QeH} was a noun, rather th=
an an adjective modifying {chuD}. Also, possibly {chuD} is too broad for &q=
uot;parents". It would also help to put in explicit plural markers.</p=
>
<p dir=3D"ltr">QeS 'utlh:<br>
> parmaqchaj'e' bejbogh Hegh je wImuch;<br>
> yol Qaw' puq yIn lughanglu'pu'bogh neH,</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Good contrast between {ghang} and {van} used two lines above=
.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">QeS 'utlh:<br>
> DaH vaSmajDaq cha' rep lutvam wIruch.[2]<br>
> [2] Though strictly we don't have canon for it, I like using {ruch=
} in this way. From the glosses "proceed", "go ahead", =
"do it", and the sense of the canon examples we do have, I don=
9;t think a transitive sense of "get on with" (as ?{Qu'lIj yI=
ruch} "get on with your mission!") is a long stretch.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">?{Qu'lIj yIruch} looks to me like it's missing a ver=
b. I would write this as {Qu'lIj yIchav, yIruch!} ?{lutvam wIruch} look=
s to me like it's missing something for the same reason. What are we do=
ing with {lut}? {bej}? {ja'}? {much?}</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I interpret {targhlIj yIngagh, yIruch} as {targhlIj yIngagh,=
[targhlIj Dangagh 'e'] yIruch}, where the part in [brackets] is im=
plicit. But I could be wrong in my interpretation.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">QeS 'utlh:<br>
> rIn bI'reS, 'ach vay' Qoybe'lu'pu'chugh,<br>
> tuvchugh teSDu', yajmoHjaj muchmaj Dugh.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">The original is directed to the watcher, rather than an inde=
finite person, and I think it's better if it's kept the same.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">> In English:<br>
><br>
> Two households, both alike in dignity,<br>
> In fair Verona, where we lay our scene,<br>
> From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,<br>
> Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.<br>
> From forth the fatal loins of these two foes<br>
> A pair of star-cross'd lovers take their life;<br>
> Whose misadventured piteous overthrows<br>
> Do with their death bury their parents' strife.<br>
> The fearful passage of their death-mark'd love,<br>
> And the continuance of their parents' rage,<br>
> Which, but their children's end, nought could remove,<br>
> Is now the two hours' traffic of our stage;<br>
> The which if you with patient ears attend,<br>
> What here shall miss, our toil shall strive to mend.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">-- <br>
De'vID<br>
</p>
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