[97563] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Story: ghuv = The Recruit - 23
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Tue Nov 12 05:09:31 2013
From: "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
To: "'tlhIngan-Hol'" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <1AD09959-4E65-454D-81E0-D56CCB8C71EA@alcaco.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 11:09:28 +0100
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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I think as an idiom it=E2=80=99s fair that it isn=E2=80=99t immediately =
interpretable without prior knowledge: that=E2=80=99s kind of the =
definition of an idiom. I also don=E2=80=99t have a problem with a verb =
of seeing being used with a corpse. I would say that the victim in the =
relevant scene in Silence of the Lambs, or even a decapitated body was =
lying =E2=80=9Cface up=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cface down=E2=80=9D in =
English.
=20
On the other hand, I said legh and the idiom is clearly bej, so I =
definitely need to correct that, even if ghunchu=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99 =
knew what I meant.=20
=20
If it helps with the Romulan line, DungDaq legh 'ej QotnIStaH =
romuluSngan be'pu', it=E2=80=99s not so much =E2=80=9Cneed to lie =
down=E2=80=9D as =E2=80=9Cneed to be lying down.=E2=80=9D
=20
- Qov
=20
From: ghunchu'wI' [mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net]=20
Sent: November 6, 2013 2:42 AM
To: tlhIngan-Hol
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Story: ghuv =3D The Recruit - 23
=20
On Nov 5, 2013, at 7:21 PM, "De'vID" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11 Sep 2013 02:02, "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca> wrote:
> bIng bej/Dung bej =3D be face down/face up
I didn't understand the intended meaning, because I thought the Romulans =
were unconscious, and {bej} implied otherwise.
For what it's worth, I recognized the idiom immediately.
=20
I don't know if its because I would have translated it the same way, or =
because I've seen it before and had to have it explained. Perhaps I was =
part of a discussion where some of us tried to translate the idea and =
that was one of the suggestions? I don't recall. Maybe Qov and I have =
just had enough face-to-face conversations in Klingon that I understand =
her intent and often anticipate her words. All I know is that the image =
was perfectly clear in my mind without requiring any overt analysis (or =
even any translation, as it happens).
=20
-- ghunchu'wI'
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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I think as an idiom it=E2=80=99s fair that it isn=E2=80=99t =
immediately interpretable without prior knowledge: that=E2=80=99s kind =
of the definition of an idiom. I also don=E2=80=99t have a problem with =
a verb of seeing being used with a corpse. I would say that the victim =
in the relevant scene in Silence of the Lambs, or even a decapitated =
body was lying =E2=80=9Cface up=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cface down=E2=80=9D =
in English.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>On the other hand, I said legh and the idiom is clearly bej, so I =
definitely need to correct that, even if ghunchu=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99 =
knew what I meant. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If it helps with the Romulan line, </span>DungDaq legh 'ej QotnIStaH =
romuluSngan be'pu', it=E2=80=99s not so much =E2=80=9Cneed to lie =
down=E2=80=9D as =E2=80=9Cneed to be lying =
down.=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></p><p =
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</span></span><![endif]><span =
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D'>Qov<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ghunchu'wI' [<a =
href=3D"mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net">mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net</a>] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> November 6, 2013 2:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
tlhIngan-Hol<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Story: ghuv =3D The =
Recruit - 23<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Nov =
5, 2013, at 7:21 PM, "De'vID" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com">de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p>On 11 Sep 2013 =
02:02, "Robyn Stewart" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:robyn@flyingstart.ca">robyn@flyingstart.ca</a>> =
wrote:<br>> bIng bej/Dung bej =3D be face down/face =
up<o:p></o:p></p><p>I didn't understand the intended meaning, because I =
thought the Romulans were unconscious, and {bej} implied =
otherwise.<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>For what it's worth, I recognized the idiom =
immediately.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
don't know if its because I would have translated it the same way, or =
because I've seen it before and had to have it explained. Perhaps I was =
part of a discussion where some of us tried to translate the idea and =
that was one of the suggestions? I don't recall. Maybe Qov and I have =
just had enough face-to-face conversations in Klingon that I understand =
her intent and often anticipate her words. All I know is that the image =
was perfectly clear in my mind without requiring any overt analysis (or =
even any translation, as it happens).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-- ghunchu'wI'<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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