[97560] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Story: ghuv = The Recruit - 49
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Tue Nov 12 04:45:26 2013
From: "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
To: "tlhIngan Hol mailing list" <tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmO9_WYEurWNyR2UrKhhWu3fB-9fJO_beWHvB0CXGH8Qzg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:45:15 +0100
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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It is my custom when I write stories, to transfer the degree of certainty in
V6s to the POV character in the scene. I can't remember if anyone has
complained about it before. I think it's a valid objection but I also think
it's a valid technique, less 'out there' than concrete poetry. I think it's
akin to describing a scene in the voice and experiences of a character, so
that when one POV character passes the field s/he sees "a horse" while
another sees "a three year old anglo-arab, chestnut with a white stocking on
the off hindleg."
By your logic I could almost never use -Hey in a narrative, because when the
characters see what to them is a mangHey, I the author know it is a mangna'.
How would you feel in an English language story if the author wrote, "Torg
sees a bucket." and then later in the story it turns out to be a cat? I'm
telling you "Torg seems to hear a motor whining." I know damn well whether
he hears a motor whining or not [he does] but I'm not going to give it away
yet. It doesn't work for you that I as the author am saying I think he can
hear a motor.
It's noted, however that the technique didn't work for you.
As for vIng, I use it in both English senses and if forced to surrender one
I would surrender the "complains" meaning, not the "makes a high pitched
noise" meaning, because we have such a paucity of onomatopoeia.
But all together you would be content with
'aplo'Daq chuSlaw' nguSDI' 'e' Qoy torgh.
Which I like better anyway. I probably started with nguSDI' Qoylaw' torgh
and then added the SAO.
I really appreciate you reading and commenting, and in no way want to shoot
you down. Please anyone else comment on whether my V6 use seems appropriate
to you.
From: De'vID [mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com]
Sent: November 6, 2013 2:56 AM
To: tlhIngan-Hol
Cc: Robyn Stewart
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Story: ghuv = The Recruit - 49
On 13 Oct 2013 18:13, "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca> wrote:
> 'aplo'Daq vIng nguSDI' 'e' Qoylaw' torgh. = "In the container a motor
> whines - Torg uncertainly hears that." i.e. "Torg thinks he might hear a
> motor whining in the container."
{-law'} expresses uncertainty on the part of the speaker, not the subject,
though.
Also I'm not sure {vIng} applies to {nguSDI'}.
--
De'vID
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-CA link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>It is my custom when I write stories, to transfer the degree of =
certainty in V6s to the POV character in the scene. I can’t =
remember if anyone has complained about it before. I think =
it’s a valid objection but I also think it’s a valid =
technique, less ‘out there’ than concrete poetry. I think =
it’s akin to describing a scene in the voice and experiences of a =
character, so that when one POV character passes the field s/he sees =
“a horse” while another sees “a three year old =
anglo-arab, chestnut with a white stocking on the off hindleg.” =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>By your logic I could almost never use –Hey in a narrative, =
because when the characters see what to them is a mangHey, I the author =
know it is a mangna’. How would you feel in an English language =
story if the author wrote, “Torg sees a bucket.” and then =
later in the story it turns out to be a cat? I’m telling you =
“Torg seems to hear a motor whining.” I know damn well =
whether he hears a motor whining or not [he does] but I’m not =
going to give it away yet. It doesn’t work for you that I as =
the author am saying I think he can hear a =
motor.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>It’s noted, however that the technique didn’t work for =
you.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As for vIng, I use it in both English senses and if forced to =
surrender one I would surrender the “complains” meaning, not =
the “makes a high pitched noise” meaning, because we have =
such a paucity of onomatopoeia.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>But all together you would be content with <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>'aplo'Daq =
chuSlaw’ nguSDI' 'e' Qoy torgh.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Which I like =
better anyway. I probably started with nguSDI’ Qoylaw’ torgh =
and then added the SAO.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I really =
appreciate you reading and commenting, and in no way want to shoot you =
down. Please anyone else comment on whether my V6 use seems appropriate =
to you.<span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> De'vID =
[mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> November 6, 2013 2:56 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> tlhIngan-Hol<br><b>Cc:</b> Robyn =
Stewart<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Story: ghuv =3D The =
Recruit - 49<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p><br>On 13 Oct 2013 18:13, =
"Robyn Stewart" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:robyn@flyingstart.ca">robyn@flyingstart.ca</a>> =
wrote:<br>> 'aplo'Daq vIng nguSDI' 'e' Qoylaw' torgh. =3D =
"In the container a motor<br>> whines - Torg uncertainly hears =
that." i.e. "Torg thinks he might hear a<br>> motor whining =
in the container."<o:p></o:p></p><p>{-law'} expresses uncertainty =
on the part of the speaker, not the subject, =
though.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Also I'm not sure {vIng} applies to =
{nguSDI'}.<o:p></o:p></p><p>-- =
<br>De'vID<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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