[97334] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: tlhegh
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Bellerophon, modeler)
Fri Oct 4 14:19:19 2013
In-Reply-To: <F52986192E9FE346B0B7EF3D6F98E877122E9E04@EXDB3.ug.kth.se>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 14:18:33 -0400
From: "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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{tlhegh} seems to carry the idea of a continuous line with some thickness
or substance, as opposed to {SIrgh} (consisting of a single strand) or
{mIr} (consisting of individual links). The substance of which a {tlhegh}
is formed can be {SIrghmey}, {mu'mey}, {vIt}, or even {nugh}. And in the
cases of spoken Klingon or the {nugh tlhegh}, the extent seems to be in
time or through society rather than in distance, as with a rope.
(Interesting that "sentence" is translated {mu'tlhegh} and not {*mu'mIr}.
Do Klingons conceive of the words in a sentence as strands rather than
individual links? That the force of each word in a sentence extends for the
whole length of the sentence, rather than merely interacting with adjacent
words?)
There seem to be no Klingon words for stripe, strip, bar, band, or such
words denoting a wide or narrow non-branching surface feature of some
length, which is flat or nearly so, such as on flags, roads, clothing, etc.
Some words that denote objects (or effects) of this sort are {qoSta'},
{gho}, {qogh}, {joQ}, {tIH}, {Ha'quj}, and of course {tlhegh}.
There was a long discussion about {qoSta'} (ghunchu'wI' started the thread
on 29 July 2013), which apparently means ribbon or tape and to denote form.
Also if the ribbon-like shape forms a loop, there are {Ha'quj} /baldric,
sash/ and {gho} /hoop/. {Ha'quj} seems to denote function, but {gho} seems
likely to denote form. Also, there is {qogh} /belt/, which may only denote
an article of clothing. There is also {joQ} /rib/ that might serve in some
contexts, but except as part of a {SuSDeq}, is possibly only an anatomical
term (and perhaps that part of a susdek is made from a rib). And {tIH}
/ray, beam/ is obviously a stream of energy and not a solid object, though
I'd expect it to be used to describe the ray decorations on the flag of
Tibet or the Japanese naval ensign.
How would one translate stripes or bands of color on flags or clothing,
painted lines on roadways, phaser strips on starships, etc? Aside from the
literal translations, are there any canon references in which {tlhegh} or
any of these other words is used to denote such a surface feature or
object? No doubt they'd be context sensitive and idiomatic, as in English,
etc.
~'eD
On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se> wrote:
> In paq'batlh, the word is used to refer to lines of people.
>
> paq'batlh, paq'raD, Canto 1, Stanza 9:
>
> ghe=E2=80=99tor lojmIt lughoS
> Heghpu'bogh nuvpu=E2=80=99 qa=E2=80=99pu=E2=80=99
> chen wej tlheghmey
>
> The spirits of the dead
> Go to the gates of Gre'thor
> In lines of three.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Steven Boozer [sboozer@uchicago.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 16:41
> To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: tlhegh
>
> > Klingon Word of the Day for Wednesday, October 02, 2013
> >
> > Klingon word: tlhegh
> > Part of speech: noun
> > Definition: line, rope
>
> AFAIK there are no examples of the simple noun in a sentence.
>
> HQ 5.1: The usual term for proverb is {vIttlhegh}, literally "truth rope=
"
> and formed, no doubt, by analogy with {mu'tlhegh} "sentence" or, literall=
y,
> "word rope".
>
> Okrand wrote to Qov (8/2012):
>
> The word for bridge (as in over a river) is {QI}
> ... that would apply to the kind of rope bridge
> you described (as well as more substantial bridges).
>
> Related vocabulary:
>
> SIrgh string, thread, filament (n)
> mIr chain (n)
>
> mu'tlhegh sentence (n)
> vIttlhegh proverb (n)
>
> nugh tlhegh "society rope" (??) KCD
>
> This last is an odd one, possibly meaning socially acceptable
> (upper-class?) behavior. (Compare "party line".) OTOH this may refer to
> the six painstik-wielding warriors who form the gauntlet (or "River of
> Pain") for a young Klingon during his {nentay}. The expression appears i=
n
> the KCD novelization as:
>
> "Pok has yet to complete the Second Rite of Ascension.
> In the eyes of the {nugh tlhegh} he is still a boy."
>
>
> --
> Voragh
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
--=20
My modeling blog: http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/
My other modeling blog: http://bellerophon.blog.com/
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<div dir=3D"ltr">{tlhegh} seems to carry the idea of a continuous line with=
some thickness or substance, as opposed to {SIrgh} (consisting of a single=
strand) or {mIr} (consisting of individual links). The substance of which =
a {tlhegh} is formed can be {SIrghmey}, {mu'mey}, {vIt}, or even {nugh}=
. And in the cases of spoken Klingon or the {nugh tlhegh}, the extent seems=
to be in time or through society rather than in distance, as with a rope. =
(Interesting that "sentence" is translated {mu'tlhegh} and no=
t {*mu'mIr}. Do Klingons conceive of=C2=A0the words in a sentence as st=
rands rather than individual links? That the force of each word in a senten=
ce extends for the whole length of the sentence, rather than merely interac=
ting with adjacent words?)<div>
<br></div>
<div>There seem to be no Klingon words for stripe, strip, bar, band, or suc=
h words denoting a wide or narrow non-branching surface feature of some len=
gth, which is flat or nearly so, such as on flags, roads, clothing, etc. So=
me words that denote objects (or effects) of this sort are {qoSta'}, {g=
ho}, {qogh}, {joQ}, {tIH}, {Ha'quj}, and of course {tlhegh}.</div>
<div><br></div><div>There was a long discussion about {qoSta'} (ghunchu=
'wI' started the thread on 29 July 2013), which apparently means ri=
bbon or tape and to denote form. Also if the ribbon-like shape forms a loop=
, there are {Ha'quj} /baldric, sash/ and {gho} /hoop/. {Ha'quj} see=
ms to denote function, but {gho} seems likely to denote form. Also, there i=
s {qogh} /belt/, which may only denote an article of clothing. There is als=
o {joQ} /rib/ that might serve in some contexts, but except as part of a {S=
uSDeq}, is=C2=A0possibly only an anatomical term (and perhaps that part of =
a susdek is made from a rib). And {tIH} /ray, beam/ is obviously a stream o=
f energy and not a solid object, though I'd expect it to be used to des=
cribe the ray decorations on the flag of Tibet or the Japanese naval ensign=
.</div>
<div><br></div><div>How would one translate stripes or bands of color on fl=
ags or clothing, painted lines on roadways, phaser strips on starships, etc=
? Aside from the literal translations, are there any canon references in wh=
ich {tlhegh} or any of these other words is used to denote such a surface f=
eature or object? No doubt they'd be context sensitive and idiomatic, a=
s in English, etc.</div>
<div><br></div><div>~'eD</div>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu,=
Oct 3, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Felix Malmenbeck <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"=
mailto:felixm@kth.se" target=3D"_blank">felixm@kth.se</a>></span> wrote:=
<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
In paq'batlh, the word is used to refer to lines of people.<br>
<br>
paq'batlh, paq'raD, Canto 1, Stanza 9:<br>
<br>
ghe=E2=80=99tor lojmIt lughoS<br>
Heghpu'bogh nuvpu=E2=80=99 qa=E2=80=99pu=E2=80=99<br>
chen wej tlheghmey<br>
<br>
The spirits of the dead<br>
Go to the gates of Gre'thor<br>
In lines of three.<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: Steven Boozer [<a href=3D"mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu">sboozer@uchica=
go.edu</a>]<br>
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 16:41<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org">tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: tlhegh<br>
<br>
> Klingon Word of the Day for Wednesday, October 02, 2013<br>
><br>
> Klingon word: tlhegh<br>
> Part of speech: noun<br>
> Definition: line, rope<br>
<br>
AFAIK there are no examples of the simple noun in a sentence.<br>
<br>
HQ 5.1: =C2=A0The usual term for proverb is {vIttlhegh}, literally "tr=
uth rope" and formed, no doubt, by analogy with {mu'tlhegh} "=
sentence" or, literally, "word rope".<br>
<br>
Okrand wrote to Qov (8/2012):<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 The word for bridge (as in over a river) is {QI}<br>
=C2=A0 ... that would apply to the kind of rope bridge<br>
=C2=A0 you described (as well as more substantial bridges).<br>
<br>
Related vocabulary:<br>
<br>
SIrgh =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 string, thread, filament (n)<br>
mIr =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 c=
hain (n)<br>
<br>
mu'tlhegh =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sentence (n)=
<br>
vIttlhegh =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 proverb (n)<br>
<br>
nugh tlhegh =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "society rope" (??) KCD<br>
<br>
This last is an odd one, possibly meaning socially acceptable (upper-class?=
) behavior. =C2=A0(Compare "party line".) =C2=A0OTOH this may ref=
er to the six painstik-wielding warriors who form the gauntlet (or "Ri=
ver of Pain") for a young Klingon during his {nentay}. =C2=A0The expre=
ssion appears in the KCD novelization as:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 "Pok has yet to complete the Second Rite of Ascension.<br>
=C2=A0 In the eyes of the {nugh tlhegh} he is still a boy."<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Voragh<br>
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>My modeling =
blog:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http=
://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon-=
modeler.blogspot.com/</a><br>My other modeling blog:=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http:=
//bellerophon.blog.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon.blog.com/</a>=
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