[97208] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] do {vIttlhegh} become {ngo'} or {qan}?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Bellerophon, modeler)
Wed Sep 11 14:55:53 2013
In-Reply-To: <52306A1E.40800@trimboli.name>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:55:15 -0400
From: "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 9:03 AM, David Trimboli <david@trimboli.name> wrote:
> On 9/11/2013 7:42 AM, De'vID wrote:
>
>>
>> "The word {ngo'} in the phrase above means old as opposed to new.
>> Thus, it would be applied to objects or ideas, but not to animals or
>> people."
>>
>> It certainly rules out something like {nuv ngo'} or {tlhIngan ngo'}.
>>
>
> I see no "certainly" about it. Okrand wasn't ruling out all possibility of
> using {ngo'} with people; he is just explaining that when one it talking
> about an elderly person, the correct verb is {qan}, not {ngo'}. You're
> being too absolute with his text.
>
Even reading it literally, since KGT says {ngo'} can apply to ideas, this
might include roles or offices.
As for animals, how would one say "my new horse is older than my old
horse"? {?chu'bogh SarghwIj qan law', ngo'bogh SarghwIj qan puS} Of course
what's new or old isn't the sark, but its ownership, which might require
totally different phrasing.
>
>> The problem with {Qang ngo'} is that I'm not sure if it means
>> "(current) chancellor who has been serving for a long time" or "former
>> chancellor (who is no longer serving in that position)". Klingon makes
>> a finer distinction than English for "old (not young)" and "old (not
>> new)"; but it doesn't make the distinction between "old (not recent)"
>> and "old (not current)".
>>
>
> Context will give you this information, as it does in English.
On the other hand, is it safe to assume a Klingon would refer to a
chancellor as {?Qang ngo'} in either case? Speaking of someone no longer in
office we can say "former," and our usage of "old" is convenient but not
inevitable. {?Qang ngo'} isn't inevitable in Klingon, either. One way to
refer to a former {Qang} would be {Qang nubwI'}, or "predecessor of the
chancellor."
As for a long-serving {Qang}, can {nI'} be used in a phrase like {?Qang
nI'}, or only to modify a time period, like {poH nI'}?
~'eD
--
My modeling blog: http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/
My other modeling blog: http://bellerophon.blog.com/
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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 9:03 AM, David Trimboli <span dir=
=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:david@trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">david=
@trimboli.name</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 9/11/2013 7:42 AM, De'vID wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
"The word {ngo'} in the phrase above means old as opposed to new.<=
br>
Thus, it would be applied to objects or ideas, but not to animals or<br>
people."<br>
<br>
It certainly rules out something like {nuv ngo'} or {tlhIngan ngo'}=
.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I see no "certainly" about it. Okrand wasn't ruling out all p=
ossibility of using {ngo'} with people; he is just explaining that when=
one it talking about an elderly person, the correct verb is {qan}, not {ng=
o'}. You're being too absolute with his text.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Even reading it literally, since KGT says =
{ngo'} can apply to ideas, this might include roles or offices.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>As for animals, how would one say "my new horse is o=
lder than my old horse"? {?chu'bogh SarghwIj qan law',=C2=A0ng=
o'bogh SarghwIj qan puS} Of course what's new or old isn't the =
sark, but its ownership, which might require totally different phrasing.</d=
iv>
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex"><br>
The problem with {Qang ngo'} is that I'm not sure if it means<br>
"(current) chancellor who has been serving for a long time" or &q=
uot;former<br>
chancellor (who is no longer serving in that position)". Klingon makes=
<br>
a finer distinction than English for "old (not young)" and "=
old (not<br>
new)"; but it doesn't make the distinction between "old (not =
recent)"<br>
and "old (not current)".<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Context will give you this information, as it does in English.</blockquote>=
<div>=C2=A0</div><div>On the other hand, is it safe to assume a Klingon wou=
ld refer to a chancellor as {?Qang ngo'} in either case? Speaking of so=
meone no longer in office we can say "former," and our usage of &=
quot;old" is convenient but not inevitable. {?Qang ngo'} isn't=
inevitable in Klingon, either. One way to refer to a former {Qang} would b=
e {Qang nubwI'}, or "predecessor of the chancellor."</div>
<div><br></div><div>As for a long-serving {Qang}, can {nI'} be used in =
a phrase like {?Qang nI'}, or only to modify a time period, like {poH n=
I'}?</div></div><br clear=3D"all"><div>~'eD</div>-- <br>My modeling=
blog:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"htt=
p://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon=
-modeler.blogspot.com/</a><br>
My other modeling blog:=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://bellerophon.blog.com/" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon.blog.com/</a><br>
</div></div>
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