[97134] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Story - Out of order installments
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Fri Sep 6 09:23:20 2013
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>,
"tlhIngan-Hol@KLI.org" <tlhIngan-Hol@KLI.org>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 13:21:59 +0000
In-Reply-To: <CABSTb1dvbMzkKEwvCiavZwB5kTAD1Aho7FzO-Gn6fvwfZyGVzw@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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> Might {jIQoch(be')} be uncanonical usage?
It sems that in Klingon, one person can [dis]agree all on her/his own:
http://klingonska.org/canon/search/?file=3D1996-08-06c-news.txt&get=3Dsourc=
e
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
d'Armond -- jIQochbe'. When the dictionary lacks a word that you need (or t=
hink you need), the best approach is to think of other ways to say the same=
thing. This not only gets your idea across, it also helps you become more =
familiar with Klingon. qeS QaQ.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
http://klingonska.org/canon/search/?file=3D1997-11-30-news.txt&get=3Dsource
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Both Qochbe'nIS "he/she/they
need to not disagree" (that is, "he/she/they need to agree") and QochnISbe'
"he/she/they do not need to disagree" are acceptable Klingon formations.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Also, this passage from KGT would seem to back this up:
Nonslang equivalents of {qang}, though lacking the negative connotation, ar=
e
{reH Qochbe'} ("always agree"; {reH,} "always"), {reH yeq} ("always coopera=
te"),
and {reH jIj} ("always be cooperative").
________________________________
From: Bellerophon, modeler [bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 08:33
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Story - Out of order installments
Oh, yeah, same target or scattered targets, from KGT.
Might {jIQoch(be')} be uncanonical usage? It takes two (or more) to (dis)ag=
ree. I can't imagine MO would have had a problem with {maQoch 'e' wIQochbe'=
} as it translates neatly as "We agree that we disagree."
How does one use {Qoch(be')} to mean to disagree with something rather than=
with someone? (Though the {DoS qIp} idiom could be expanded to something l=
ike {?chaq qechvam DaHar 'ach DoS pIm vIqIp} (or {qechvetlh}, to distance o=
neself from the idea?) )
~'eD
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 12:33 AM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com<mailto:de.=
vid.jonpin@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:41 PM, Bellerophon, modeler
<bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com<mailto:bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>> wrote=
:
> BTW: Any canon on use of Qoch(be')? As in "I agree with Tim" or "with tha=
t
> statement (or plan, idea, etc)."
The canonical way to express (dis)agreement is with the {DoS qIp}
idioms: {cha' DoS DIqIp}, {wa' DoSmey wIqIp}.
Not strictly canon: but at the 2011 qepHom in Saarbr=FCcken, MO accepted
loghaD's {maQoch 'e' wIQochbe'} to mean "we agree to disagree".
--
De'vID
--
My modeling blog: http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/
My other modeling blog: http://bellerophon.blog.com/
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<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">> Might {jIQoch(be')} be uncanonical usage?<br>
<br>
It sems that in Klingon, one person can [dis]agree all on her/his own:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://klingonska.org/canon/search/?file=3D1996-08-06c-news.txt&=
amp;get=3Dsource" target=3D"_blank">http://klingonska.org/canon/search/?fil=
e=3D1996-08-06c-news.txt&get=3Dsource</a><br>
<br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
d'Armond -- jIQochbe'. When the dictionary lacks a word that you need (or t=
hink you need), the best approach is to think of other ways to say the same=
thing. This not only gets your idea across, it also helps you become more =
familiar with Klingon. qeS QaQ.<br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://klingonska.org/canon/search/?file=3D1997-11-30-news.txt&a=
mp;get=3Dsource" target=3D"_blank">http://klingonska.org/canon/search/?file=
=3D1997-11-30-news.txt&get=3Dsource</a><br>
<br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
<pre> Both Qochbe'nIS "he/she/they=0A=
need to not disagree" (that is, "he/she/they need to agree")=
and QochnISbe'=0A=
"he/she/they do not need to disagree" are acceptable Klingon form=
ations.</pre>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
<br>
Also, this passage from KGT would seem to back this up:<br>
<br>
<pre>Nonslang equivalents of {qang}, though lacking the negative connotatio=
n, are<br>{reH Qochbe'} ("always agree"; {reH,} "always"=
;), {reH yeq} ("always cooperate"),<br>and {reH jIj} ("alway=
s be cooperative").</pre>
<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;" id=3D"divRpF387234"><font color=3D"#000000" =
face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><b>From:</b> Bellerophon, modeler [bellerophon.m=
odeler@gmail.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 06, 2013 08:33<br>
<b>To:</b> tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Story - Out of order installments<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Oh, yeah, same target or scattered targets, from KGT.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Might {jIQoch(be')} be uncanonical usage? It takes two (or more) to (d=
is)agree. I can't imagine MO would have had a problem with {maQoch 'e' wIQo=
chbe'} as it translates neatly as "We agree that we disagree."</d=
iv>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>How does one use {Qoch(be')} to mean to disagree with something rather=
than with someone? (Though the {DoS qIp} idiom could be expanded to someth=
ing like {?chaq qechvam DaHar 'ach DoS pIm vIqIp} (or {qechvetlh}, to dista=
nce oneself from the idea?) )</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>~'eD</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 12:33 AM, De'vID <span di=
r=3D"ltr">
<<a href=3D"mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">de.vid.jon=
pin@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1=
px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:41 PM, Bellerophon, modeler<br>
<<a href=3D"mailto:bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">bell=
erophon.modeler@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> BTW: Any canon on use of Qoch(be')? As in "I agree with Tim"=
or "with that<br>
> statement (or plan, idea, etc)."<br>
<br>
The canonical way to express (dis)agreement is with the {DoS qIp}<br>
idioms: {cha' DoS DIqIp}, {wa' DoSmey wIqIp}.<br>
<br>
Not strictly canon: but at the 2011 qepHom in Saarbr=FCcken, MO accepted<br=
>
loghaD's {maQoch 'e' wIQochbe'} to mean "we agree to disagree".<b=
r>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
--<br>
De'vID<br>
</font></span></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
My modeling blog: <a =
href=3D"http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank">
http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/</a><br>
My other modeling blog: <a href=3D"http://bellerophon.blog.com/" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon.blog.com/</a><br>
</div>
</div>
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