[97125] in tlhIngan-Hol
[Tlhingan-hol] Story: ghuv = The Recruit - 17
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Thu Sep 5 23:19:48 2013
From: "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
To: "tlhIngan Hol mailing list" <tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 20:19:34 -0700
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Here's the accidentally out of order part 17. Not proofread today because
it's 9:15 pm in the time zone I started my day in, and I'm eating my first
meal of the day instead of proofreading. Does that make it nIQ. megh. 'uQ or
ghem?
The story sections are getting longer, and I'm making you look up more for
yourself. I'll still try to explain anything tricky. This should be getting
a little more interesting for more advanced speakers too, and I would
certainly appreciate debate on usage and choices.
SopmeH pa' lughoS 'ej pa' SaH wej latlhpu'. lIH'eghbe' negh, 'ach jawtaHvIS
chaH, permey yuD ghoj torgh. DevwI' ghaHlaw' maQ'e'. bIp qIHpu'. <cha'bIp>
lupong je. loDpu' chaH <'eng>'e' <tlhon>'e' je. be' ghaH <jul>'e'. pIj Hagh
'eng. motlh tamtaH tlhon. nom jatlh jul. tlhoch bIp, 'ach ghoHbe'. vuDDaj
ja'pu'DI' yon. Qu'chaj luqelbe'. nuHmey chu', may'mey noy je bop
SoQHommeychaj. HoS Hoch 'ej yoH 'ej jeQ. 'ej woch. torgh run law' Hoch run
puS. ghomvam muvpu'mo' Hemqu' torgh.
--
SopmeH pa' - works like ghojmeH taj. It can't be otherwise or else it would
mean "in order that the room eats"
lughoS - ghoS doesn't require -Daq to indicate motion towards, so "lughoS"
means "they go to/come to/proceed towards..." whatever the preceding or
implied destination is.
'ej - joins sentences
pa' SaH wej latlhpu' - this could almost mean "Three others care about the
room" but in that case the verb prefix would be lu-. It could still mean
"Three others care about the rooms" but you are expected to be paying enough
attention to realize that it means "three others are present there."
"The go to the mess hall and there three others are present."
lIH'eghbe' negh, 'ach jawtaHvIS chaH, permey yuD ghoj torgh.
lIH = introduce
'egh = V1 reflexive, self
chaH is optional, but makes it clearer who is chatting.
"The soldiers do not introduce themselves, but as they chat, torgh learns
code names."
DevwI' ghaHlaw' maQ'e'.
An ordinary pronoun as to be sentence, remarkable only in that it has a V6
on the pronoun.
"He thought maQ was the leader." "maQ seemed to be the leader." "maQ was
apparently the leader." maQ still hasn't introduced himself as such, that
just seems to be his role.
bIp qIHpu'.
"He has met bIp." - perfective, that's done. This isn't about meeting bIp
but about the completion of that event.
<cha'bIp> lupong je.
cha'bIp = A long-legged bird that can run fast. The pun "beep-beep" suggests
this more like a roadrunner, than an ostrich.
"They call her "cha'bIp" too."
loDpu' chaH <'eng>'e' <tlhon>'e' je.
An ordinary PTB sentence. I almost forgot to put the -'e' suffixes on the
names, but they need to go there. This is the kind of thing I have to do in
Klingon if I introduce a character and care whether the reader knows their
gender. In English I could just say "his name was" or use a name and then a
pronoun and you'd know, but you really have to go out of your way in
Klingon. Sometimes it doesn't matter and I let a character go all the way
through the story without it mattering. But I usually have an appearance for
them in my head so I mention a rol or a ngech or call them a be' or a loD.
"Cloud" and "nostril" are men.
be' ghaH jul'e'.
"Sun" is a woman.
pIj Hagh 'eng. motlh tamtaH tlhon. nom jatlh jul.
Three functionally identical sentences: adverb, verb, proper noun. I
deliberately chose code names that I wasn't otherwise using in the story, so
you don't need to worry about me talking about an actual nostril or cloud.
"Cloud often laughs. Nostril generally stays quiet. Sun talks quickly."
tlhoch bIp, 'ach ghoHbe'.
"bIp contradicts, but she doesn't argue."
vuDDaj ja'pu'DI' yon.
"When she has told her opinion, she is satisfied."
Qu'chaj luqelbe'.
"They do not consider the mission." "They do not take the mission into
consideration."
There are not words in Klingon for "speak about". We have bop = be about
(don't let THAT confuse you: it looks like a be-verb but it pretty much has
to have an object to make sense.) But without words for "conversation" we
can't easily use it to describe what people are talking about. "jatlhtaHvIS
X luqel" = "they consider X while they speak." Now it's true that
technically I could be considering killing you while I speak to you of tasty
snadder, but if I were to do that in Klingon I would say something like,
<qagh 'ey bop mu'meywIj, HoH ral boptaHvIS qechmeywIj>. I could have said
here <Qu'chaj lubopbe' mu'meychaj>, but used a similar construction in the
next sentence.
nuHmey chu', may'mey noy je bop SoQHommeychaj.
nuHmey chu' - adjectival verb. nuHmey can be glossed as "arsenal" as well as
"weapons" and here it doesn't really matter. Are they talking about specific
new weapons, or the spring arsenal collection?
may'mey noy - another adjectival verb, the two noun phrases are then linked
with je
bop - be about, as mentioned above
SoQ = speech, lecture
-Hom - diminutive, makes something like a speech or lecture but of lesser
importance, size, etcetera. Of course a speech or lecture is a thing that
can be of varying size and importance. You could have a three hour speech to
a television audience of millions. You could have a shy best man stumble
through a speech at a wedding. If a Ted Talk is a SoQ (which it is) a
mini-Ted Talk could be a SoQHom. But if a one minute toast can be a SoQ,
then a short pronouncement on anything can be a SoQHom. It may be an unusual
use of the word, but I'm going here for "their pronouncements" or "their
rants" or even "their statements". It's not the ideal formulation. It would
be nice to have a word "conversation" or "speak about".
"Their pronouncements are about new weapons and famous battles."
HoS Hoch 'ej yoH 'ej jeQ.
"All are strong and they are brave and they are self-confident."
It might be more natural with Hoch at the end instead. HoS 'ej yoH 'ej jeQ
Hoch. "All are strong and brave and self-confident." I did it the way I did
because I think it segues better to the next sentence.
'ej woch. torgh run law' Hoch run puS.
There's the law'/puS construction again, with Hoch for the superlative.
"And they are tall. Torg was shorter than everyone." ("Torg was the
shortest") As he must be used to.
ghomvam muvpu'mo' Hemqu' torgh.
"Because he has joined this group, Torg is very proud." "Torg is very proud
to have joined this group."
- Qov
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<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">Here’s =
the accidentally out of order part 17. Not proofread today because =
it’s 9:15 pm in the time zone I</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> =
<FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">s</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">tarted</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> my day in, and I’m eating my first meal of the =
day</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">instead of proofreading. Does that make it nIQ. megh. =
‘uQ or ghem?</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">The story =
sections are getting longer, and I’m making you look up more for =
yourself. I’ll still try to explain anything tricky. This should =
be getting a little more interesting for more advanced speakers too, and =
I would certainly appreciate debate on usage and =
choices.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">SopmeH pa' =
lughoS 'ej pa' SaH wej latlhpu'. lIH'eghbe' negh, 'ach jawtaHvIS chaH, =
permey yuD ghoj torgh. DevwI' ghaHlaw' maQ'e'. bIp qIHpu'. =
«cha'bIp» lupong je. loDpu' chaH =
«'eng»</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">’e’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> «tlhon»</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">’e’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"> je. be' ghaH =
«jul»'e'. pIj Hagh 'eng. motlh tamtaH tlhon. nom jatlh =
jul. tlhoch bIp, 'ach ghoHbe'. vuDDaj ja'pu'DI' yon. Qu'chaj luqelbe'. =
nuHmey chu', may'mey noy je bop SoQHommeychaj. HoS Hoch 'ej yoH 'ej jeQ. =
'ej woch. torgh run law' Hoch run puS. ghomvam muvpu'mo' Hemqu' =
torgh.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> </SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">--</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">SopmeH =
pa'</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">– =
works like ghojmeH taj. It can’t be otherwise or else it would =
mean “in order that the room eats”</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">lughoS</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> – ghoS doesn’t require –Daq to =
indicate motion towards, so “lughoS” means “they go =
to/come to/proceed towards...” whatever the preceding or implied =
destination is.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> 'ej</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">– joins sentences</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">pa' SaH wej =
latlhpu'</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"> =
– this could almost mean “Three others care about the =
room” but in that case the verb prefix would be lu-. It could =
still mean “Three others care about the rooms” but you are =
expected to be paying enough attention to realize that it means =
“three others are present there.”</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">“The go =
to the mess hall and there three others are =
present.”</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">lIH'eghbe' =
negh, 'ach jawtaHvIS chaH, permey yuD ghoj torgh.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">lIH =3D =
introduce</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">‘egh =3D =
V1 reflexive, self</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">chaH is =
optional, but makes it clearer who is chatting.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">“The =
soldiers do not introduce themselves, but as they chat, torgh learns =
code names.”</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">DevwI' ghaHlaw' =
maQ'e'.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">An ordinary =
pronoun as to be sentence, remarkable only in that it has a V6 on the =
pronoun. </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">“He =
thought maQ was the leader.” “maQ seemed to be the =
leader.” “maQ was apparently the leader.” maQ still =
hasn’t introduced himself as such, that just seems to be his =
role.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">bIp =
qIHpu'.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">“He has =
met bIp.” – perfective, that’s done. This isn’t =
about meeting bIp but about the completion of that =
event.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">«cha'bIp» lupong je.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">cha’bIp =
=3D</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">A =
long-legged bird that can run fast. The pun “beep-beep” =
suggests this more like a roadrunner, than an ostrich.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> “They call her “cha’bIp” =
too.” </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"fr-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">loDpu' chaH «'eng»</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"fr-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">’e’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"fr-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"> =
«tlhon»</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"fr-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">’e’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"fr-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"> =
je.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"fr-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">An ordinary PTB =
sentence. I almost forgot to put the –‘e’ suffixes on =
the names, but they need to go there.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> =
<FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">This is the kind of thing I have to do in Klingon =
if I introduce a character and care whether the reader knows their =
gender. In English I could just say “his name was” or use a =
name and then a pronoun and you’d know, but you really have to go =
out of your way in Klingon. Sometimes it doesn’t matter and I let =
a character go all the way through the story without it mattering. But I =
usually have an appearance for them in my head so I mention a rol or a =
ngech or call them a be’ or a loD.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">“Cloud” and “nostril” are =
men.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">be’ ghaH =
jul’e’.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">“Sun” is a woman.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">pIj Hagh 'eng. =
motlh tamtaH tlhon. nom jatlh jul.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">Three =
functionally identical sentences: adverb, verb, proper noun. I =
deliberately chose code names that I wasn’t otherwise using in the =
story, so you don’t need to worry about me talking about an actual =
nostril or cloud.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">“Cloud =
often laughs. Nostril generally stays quiet. Sun talks =
quickly.”</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">tlhoch bIp, =
'ach ghoHbe'.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">“bIp =
contradicts, but she doesn’t argue.”</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">vuDDaj =
ja'pu'DI' yon.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">“When she =
has told her opinion, she is satisfied.”</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">Qu'chaj =
luqelbe'.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">“They do =
not consider the mission.” “They do not take the mission =
into consideration.”</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">There are not =
words in Klingon for “speak about”. We have bop =3D be about =
(don’t let THAT confuse you: it looks like a be-verb but it pretty =
much has to have an object to make sense.) But without words =
for</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">“conversation”</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">we can’t easily use it to =
describe what people are talking about. “jatlhtaHvIS X =
luqel” =3D “they consider X while they speak.” =
Now it’s true that technically I could be considering killing you =
while I speak to you of tasty snadder, but if I were to do that in =
Klingon I would say something like, <qagh ‘ey bop =
mu’meywIj, HoH ral boptaHvIS qechmeywIj>. I could have said =
here <Qu’chaj lubopbe’ mu’meychaj>, but =
used a similar construction in the next sentence.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">nuHmey chu', =
may'mey noy je bop SoQHommeychaj.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">nuHmey =
chu’ – adjectival verb. nuHmey can be glossed as =
“arsenal” as well as “weapons” and here it =
doesn’t really matter. Are they talking about specific new =
weapons, or the spring arsenal collection?</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">may’mey =
noy – another adjectival verb, the two noun phrases are then =
linked with je</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">bop – be =
about, as mentioned above</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">SoQ =3D speech, =
lecture</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">-Hom – =
diminutive, makes something like a speech or lecture but of lesser =
importance, size, etcetera. Of course a speech or lecture is a thing =
that can be of varying size and importance. You could have a three hour =
speech to a television audience of millions. You could have a shy best =
man stumble through a speech at a wedding. If a Ted Talk is a SoQ (which =
it is) a mini-Ted Talk could be a SoQHom. But if a one minute toast can =
be a SoQ, then a short pronouncement on anything can be a SoQHom. It may =
be an unusual use of the word, but I’m going here for “their =
pronouncements” or “their rants” or even “their =
statements”. It’s not the ideal formulation. It would be =
nice to have a word “conversation” or “speak =
about”.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">“Their =
pronouncements are about new weapons and famous =
battles.”</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">HoS Hoch 'ej =
yoH 'ej jeQ.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">“All are =
strong and they are brave and they are =
self-confident.”</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">It might be =
more natural with Hoch at the end instead. HoS ‘ej yoH ‘ej =
jeQ Hoch. “All are strong and brave and self-confident.” I =
did it the way I did because I think it segues better to the next =
sentence.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">'ej woch. torgh =
run law' Hoch run puS.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">There’s =
the law’/puS construction again, with Hoch for the =
superlative.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">“And they =
are tall. Torg was shorter than everyone.” (“Torg was the =
shortest”) As he must be used to.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">ghomvam =
muvpu'mo' Hemqu' torgh. </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">“Because =
he has joined this group, Torg is very proud.” “Torg is very =
proud to have joined this group.” </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">- </FONT></SPAN><SPAN=
LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> =
<FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">Qov</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
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