[96902] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: chut
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Bellerophon, modeler)
Thu Aug 8 00:32:14 2013
In-Reply-To: <CAG84SOtmqMi=qRz24qj5vn7F1id=fxbyQJzfiD2fhUhe2hag9A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 00:31:34 -0400
From: "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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One wonders what if any role there is for police officers in a society
ruled by noble houses where the right of vengeance is a central tenet. I
don't expect Klingons would give up their police powers to some agency.
They might have patrols, guards, and squads who are detailed to apprehend
someone, but not necessarily on a full-time basis. They certainly have some
sort of secret police, as evidenced by Kor's statement that even he is
watched. But with all the different houses, no doubt there is more than one
secret police, and the secret police must spy on one another. Klingon
forensic investigation leaves something to be desired, as in TNG "Reunion."
Duras' investigation of an explosion merely reveals that it was a bomb
(okay, so Duras is a dumbass. Besides, it was his bomb), but Gowron does
little better when he states that the explosive was triceron.
So perhaps Klingon society has no such thing as a police officer, per se.
-'eD
On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 6:45 PM, nIqolay q <niqolay0@gmail.com> wrote:
> This relates to a question I've been thinking about for a while: What
> might be the best way to refer to a police officer? My best guess is
> chut yaS. Perhaps a more lengthy pabmoHbogh yaS ("enforcement
> officer"), assuming "pabmoH" can be taken to mean "enforce".
>
> On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
> wrote:
> >> Klingon Word of the Day for Wednesday, August 07, 2013
> >>
> >> Klingon word: chut
> >> Part of speech: noun
> >> Definition: law
> >> Source: TKD (83 KE, 140 EK)
> >
> > AFAIK never used in canon - anything in paq'batlh? - but there is an
> interesting scene in "Star Trek: Klingon!" (KCD; pp. 23f. in the
> novelization):
> >
> > Then speaking to Pok, but looking directly into Vok's face,
> > [K'Tar] said, "Throw this {veQ} out."
> > Pok stood and moved toward Vok, reaching for the unwanted
> > guest.
> > "{bIyem'a'!}" Vok said.
> > Pok stopped short of grabbing Vok...
> > "The celebration," Vok said, "was declared a {lop'no}.
> > You have invited the spirits of all our Klingon ancestors.
> > Tradition dictates that all are welcome to the {lop 'no}.
> > Even ancient rivals. Even me, K'Tar."
> > "{Chut Quj [sic]}," K'Tar said.
> > "{Luq ratlh [sic]}," Pok said, almost spitting his words
> > at Vok.
> >
> > ?{chut Quj} "play by the rules (of the law)"? (K'Tar might really have
> said {chut QIj}, "He explained the law" as the authors/editors often
> changed I's to u or added extraneous u's in other places; e.g. {Quapla'}
> instead of {Qapla'}.)
> >
> >
> > TKW vii: Though some, perhaps many, of a society's virtues are
> represented in its legal codes, a virtue [{ghob}] is not a law. A violation
> of a virtue need not carry with it any legal sanction.
> >
> > Known Klingon laws, rights, etc.:
> >
> > The Klingon law of heredity - *g'now juk Hol pajhard* [sic!] "A son
> shall share in the honors or crimes of his father" - would have required
> the execution of Worf and his brother Kurn for the treachery of their
> father, Mogh, had not those charges proven false. (TNG "Redemption I")
> > {bortaS Dib} "Right of Vengeance": Although under discommendation,
> Worf invoked the Right of Vengeance after Duras had murdered his mate,
> K'ehleyr, killing him in a duel on Duras' ship the IKC Vorn in 2367. The
> Klingons declared the matter closed. "He has claimed the Right of
> Vengeance." (the Vorn's first officer?, TNG "Reunion") "A Klingon who
> denies himself the Right of Vengeance is no Klingon at all." (Kor to Worf,
> DS9 "The Sword of Kahless")
> >
> > "You'll find there are many rules and regulations. They will be posted.
> Violation of the smallest of them will be punished by death." (Kor, TOS
> "Errand of Mercy")
> >
> >
> > Related words:
> >
> > HeS crime (n)
> > paQDI'norgh teachings (n)
> > DIb privilege, right (n)
> > ruv justice (n)
> > teblaw' jurisdiction (n)
> >
> > loHwI' magistrate (n) [i.e. a judge]
> > 'oDwI' arbitrator, arbiter
> > yoj judgment (n)
> > bo'DIj court [of law] (n)
> > meqba' mek'ba [type of legal proceeding] (n)
> >
> > mub be legal (v)
> > Hat be illegal (v)
> > HeS commit a crime (v)
> > ghIpDIj court martial (v)
> > noH judge, estimate (v)
> > 'oD arbitrate, mediate (v)
> > loH administer (v)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Voragh
> > Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> > Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> > http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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>
--
My modeling blog: http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/
My other modeling blog: http://bellerophon.blog.com/
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px=
">One wonders what if any role there is for police officers in a society ru=
led by noble houses where the right of vengeance is a central tenet. I don&=
#39;t expect Klingons would give up their police powers to some agency. The=
y might have patrols, guards, and squads who are detailed to apprehend some=
one, but not necessarily on a full-time basis. They certainly have some sor=
t of secret police, as evidenced by Kor's statement that even he is wat=
ched. But=A0with all the different houses,=A0no doubt there is more than on=
e secret police, and the secret police must spy on one another. Klingon for=
ensic investigation leaves something to be desired, as in TNG "Reunion=
." Duras' investigation of an explosion merely reveals that it was=
a bomb (okay, so Duras is a dumbass. Besides, it was his bomb), but Gowron=
does little better when he states that the explosive was triceron.</span><=
div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">So per=
haps Klingon society has no such thing as a police officer, per se.</div><d=
iv style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div sty=
le=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
-'eD</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
>On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 6:45 PM, nIqolay q <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D=
"mailto:niqolay0@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">niqolay0@gmail.com</a>></s=
pan> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">This relates to a question I've been thinking about fo=
r a while: What<br>
might be the best way to refer to a police officer? My best guess is<br>
chut yaS. Perhaps a more lengthy pabmoHbogh yaS ("enforcement<br>
officer"), assuming "pabmoH" can be taken to mean "enfo=
rce".<br>
<br>
On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Steven Boozer <<a href=3D"mailto:sbooze=
r@uchicago.edu">sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Klingon Word of the Day for Wednesday, August 07, 2013<br>
>><br>
>> Klingon word: chut<br>
>> Part of speech: noun<br>
>> Definition: law<br>
>> Source: TKD (83 KE, 140 EK)<br>
><br>
> AFAIK never used in canon - anything in paq'batlh? - but there is =
an interesting scene in "Star Trek: Klingon!" (KCD; pp. 23f. in t=
he novelization):<br>
><br>
> =A0 =A0 Then speaking to Pok, but looking directly into Vok's face=
,<br>
> =A0 [K'Tar] said, "Throw this {veQ} out."<br>
> =A0 =A0 Pok stood and moved toward Vok, reaching for the unwanted<br>
> =A0 guest.<br>
> =A0 =A0 "{bIyem'a'!}" Vok said.<br>
> =A0 =A0 Pok stopped short of grabbing Vok...<br>
> =A0 =A0 "The celebration," Vok said, "was declared a {l=
op'no}.<br>
> =A0 You have invited the spirits of all our Klingon ancestors.<br>
> =A0 Tradition dictates that all are welcome to the {lop 'no}.<br>
> =A0 Even ancient rivals. Even me, K'Tar."<br>
> =A0 =A0 "{Chut Quj [sic]}," K'Tar said.<br>
> =A0 =A0 "{Luq ratlh [sic]}," Pok said, almost spitting his w=
ords<br>
> =A0 at Vok.<br>
><br>
> ?{chut Quj} "play by the rules (of the law)"? =A0(K'Tar =
might really have said {chut QIj}, "He explained the law" as the =
authors/editors often changed I's to u or added extraneous u's in o=
ther places; e.g. {Quapla'} instead of {Qapla'}.)<br>
><br>
><br>
> TKW vii: =A0Though some, perhaps many, of a society's virtues are =
represented in its legal codes, a virtue [{ghob}] is not a law. A violation=
of a virtue need not carry with it any legal sanction.<br>
><br>
> Known Klingon laws, rights, etc.:<br>
><br>
> =A0 The Klingon law of heredity - *g'now juk Hol pajhard* [sic!] &=
quot;A son shall share in the honors or crimes of his father" - would =
have required the execution of Worf and his brother Kurn for the treachery =
of their father, Mogh, had not those charges proven false. (TNG "Redem=
ption I")<br>
> =A0 {bortaS Dib} "Right of Vengeance": =A0Although under dis=
commendation, Worf invoked the Right of Vengeance after Duras had murdered =
his mate, K'ehleyr, killing him in a duel on Duras' ship the IKC Vo=
rn in 2367. The Klingons declared the matter closed. "He has claimed t=
he Right of Vengeance." (the Vorn's first officer?, TNG "Reun=
ion") "A Klingon who denies himself the Right of Vengeance is no =
Klingon at all." (Kor to Worf, DS9 "The Sword of Kahless")<b=
r>
><br>
> "You'll find there are many rules and regulations. They will =
be posted. Violation of the smallest of them will be punished by death.&quo=
t; (Kor, TOS "Errand of Mercy")<br>
><br>
><br>
> Related words:<br>
><br>
> HeS =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 crime (n)<br>
> paQDI'norgh =A0 =A0 teachings (n)<br>
> DIb =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 privilege, right (n)<br>
> ruv =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 justice (n)<br>
> teblaw' =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 jurisdiction (n)<br>
><br>
> loHwI' =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0magistrate (n) [i.e. a j=
udge]<br>
> 'oDwI' =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0arbitrator, =A0arbit=
er<br>
> yoj =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 judgment (n)<br>
> bo'DIj =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0court [of law] (n)<br>
> meqba' =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0mek'ba [type of legal proceeding] (n=
)<br>
><br>
> mub =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 be legal (v)<br>
> Hat =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 be illegal (v)<br>
> HeS =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 commit a crime (v)<br>
> ghIpDIj =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 court martial (v)<br>
> noH =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 judge, estimate (v)<br>
> 'oD =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 arbitrate, mediate (v)=
<br>
> loH =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 administer (v)<br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Voragh<br>
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org">Tlhingan-hol@=
stodi.digitalkingdom.org</a><br>
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ol" target=3D"_blank">http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhi=
ngan-hol</a><br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>My modeling =
blog:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a href=3D"http://bellerophon-modeler.blog=
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t=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon.blog.com/</a><br>
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