[96490] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: pagh
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rohan Fenwick)
Sun Jun 16 07:31:36 2013
From: Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:31:01 +1000
In-Reply-To: <51BD899A.90806@gmx.de>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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jIjatlhpu':
> {pagh} "nothing=2C none" (n)=2C {pagh} "no one" (n) and {pagh} "zero"
> (num) are almost certainly the same lexeme=2C so can probably be
jangpu' Voragh=2C jatlh:
> I take your point=2C but one shouldn't confuse them when translating
> from Klingon into another language... or relying on an online
> translation program! E.g.
jang je Quvar=2C jatlh:
> I guess that Klingons do not think about the different meanings.
I respectfully disagree: polysemy is where wordplay and puns come from. As =
usual=2C context is crucial=2C and it's possible to set up context delibera=
tely so ambiguity remains. In the epic I'm translating=2C there's a line in=
which one character makes an accusation to another: <maghbogh ta' vIyajcho=
Hpu'!>. It translates Georgian /shemignia sakme sheni samuxtale/ "I have be=
come aware of your treacherous act"=2C but the person this character is say=
ing it to happens to be an emperor as well=2C leaving the sentence delibera=
tely ambiguous: "I have begun to understand the betraying [accomplishment/E=
mperor]".
Unless you're talking only about the meanings "nothing" and "no-one"?
> Many languages have words with different meanings.
Oh yes. In Ubykh the phonological root /la/ represents at least three nouns=
=2C five verbs=2C and an interjection=2C all semantically unrelated. In Kli=
ngon=2C {ta'}=2C {taH}=2C {DIS}=2C {wej}=2C and {nargh} are just some I can=
think of offhand.
> pa'vo' pagh leghlu'chugh=2C vaj pagh vIlegh: pagh ghot=2C pagh nuv.
I know you've disambiguated which {pagh} you mean with context here=2C but =
I could re-illustrate the ambiguity issue by asking=2C which {pa'} did you =
intend there - "from there" or "from the room"? :)
QeS
=
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>jIjatlhpu':<br><div>>=3B {pagh=
} "nothing=2C none" (n)=2C {pagh} "no one" (n) and {pagh} "zero"<br>>=3B =
(num) are almost certainly the same lexeme=2C so can probably be<br><br>jan=
gpu' Voragh=2C jatlh:<br>>=3B I take your point=2C but one shouldn't conf=
use them when translating<br>>=3B from Klingon into another language... o=
r relying on an online<br>>=3B translation program! E.g.<br><br>jang je =
Quvar=2C jatlh:<br>>=3B I guess that Klingons do not think about the diff=
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and puns come from. As usual=2C context is crucial=2C and it's possible to =
set up context deliberately so ambiguity remains. In the epic I'm translati=
ng=2C there's a line in which one character makes an accusation to another:=
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<![endif]-->maghbogh ta' vIyajchoHpu'!>=3B. It translates Georgian /shemi=
gnia sakme sheni samuxtale/ "I have become aware of your treacherous act"=
=2C but the person this character is saying it to happens to be an emperor =
as well=2C leaving the sentence deliberately ambiguous: "I have begun to un=
derstand the betraying [accomplishment/Emperor]".<br><br>Unless you're talk=
ing only about the meanings "nothing" and "no-one"?<br><br>>=3B Many lang=
uages have words with different meanings.<br><br>Oh yes. In Ubykh the phono=
logical root /la/ represents at least three nouns=2C five verbs=2C and an i=
nterjection=2C all semantically unrelated. In Klingon=2C {ta'}=2C {taH}=2C =
{DIS}=2C {wej}=2C and {nargh} are just some I can think of offhand.<br><br>=
>=3B pa'vo' pagh leghlu'chugh=2C vaj pagh vIlegh: pagh ghot=2C pagh nuv.<=
br><br>I know you've disambiguated which {pagh} you mean with context here=
=2C but I could re-illustrate the ambiguity issue by asking=2C which {pa'} =
did you intend there - "from there" or "from the room"? :)<br><br>QeS<br></=
div> </div></body>
</html>=
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