[96173] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] new Klingon [SPOILER]
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (David Holt)
Sat May 4 21:43:24 2013
From: David Holt <kenjutsuka@live.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 20:43:02 -0500
In-Reply-To: <BAY166-W4257E37D4D46BDB346B75FAABF0@phx.gbl>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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I first heard <ghojmo> and assumed it was <ghojmoH>. On second hearing I d=
ecided it sounded more like <ghoSmo>. Though I can hear the <m> sound at t=
he beginning I don't think it is intended to be a syllable=2C but rather th=
at she closed her mouth and then started the voicing before actually formin=
g the <gh>. So opening her lips with voicing already started made it sound=
like <mu->.
Hopefully it will be clearer when she says it in the movie.
janSIy
From: qeslagh@hotmail.com
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Date: Sun=2C 5 May 2013 03:22:20 +1000
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] new Klingon [SPOILER]
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ghItlhpu' De'vID=2C jatlh:
> wa' tlhIngan mu' jatlh 'e' DaQoylaH:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DyWCEpu2P6IU
vIjangpu' jIH=2C jIjatlh:
> Doj - tlhoS jatlhchu'. ghay rur Hay Qav=2C 'ach {mughojmoH} 'oHba'. DaH
> jIboHqu'choH!
jang je SuStel=2C jatlh:
> Dojbe'. I hear "noshmon" spoken as if it were French.
The vowel nasality I'm willing to concede=2C though both English and Klingo=
n can be spoken with vowel nasality as a non-contrastive feature so I consi=
der it acceptable leeway here=2C especially since there are two nasal conso=
nants within the word. I'll also concede that the sibilant before the /m/ i=
n the ultima is probably /S/ rather than /j/=2C which would make what I hea=
rd {mughoSmoH} "it sends me=2C they send me". The voicing of the remainder =
of the word made it sound to me as though it were voiced also=2C but I've j=
ust run it through a spectrograph and there is indeed neither an affricatio=
n nor voicing there (I wonder if I misheard the stridency of the high frequ=
encies of /S/ as representing the affricate burst of /j/). I'll gladly lay =
the blame on my inexperienced ears=3B after all=2C the word could just as e=
asily be {mughoSmoH}.
But with respect=2C you've misheard the first consonant: it is /m/ and the =
accompanying visual shows clear bilabial involvement. Also=2C though the ar=
ticulation is relatively rapid=2C three syllables are definitely present - =
there's a soft but audible voiced dorsal (a velar or an untrilled uvular) m=
idway through what you've heard as the first /o/ and it's visible on the sp=
ectrogram too. But lip-rounding is also continuously present from immediate=
ly after the /m/ through to the sibilant gesture=2C consistent with two rou=
nded vowels /-ugho-/.
QeS
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_______________________________________________=0A=
Tlhingan-hol mailing list=0A=
Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org=0A=
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<style><!--
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'><span style=3D"color: rgb(68=2C =
68=2C 68)=3B font-size: 15px=3B line-height: 21px=3B">I first heard <=3Bg=
hojmo>=3B and assumed it was <=3BghojmoH>=3B.  =3BOn second heari=
ng I decided it sounded more like <=3BghoSmo>=3B.  =3BThough I can =
hear the <=3Bm>=3B sound at the beginning I don't think it is intended =
to be a syllable=2C but rather that she closed her mouth and then started t=
he voicing before actually forming the <=3Bgh>=3B.  =3BSo opening h=
er lips with voicing already started made it sound like <=3Bmu->=3B.</s=
pan><div style=3D"line-height: 21px=3B color: rgb(68=2C 68=2C 68)=3B font-s=
ize: 15px=3B"><br></div><div style=3D"line-height: 21px=3B color: rgb(68=2C=
68=2C 68)=3B font-size: 15px=3B">Hopefully it will be clearer when she say=
s it in the movie.</div><div style=3D"line-height: 21px=3B color: rgb(68=2C=
68=2C 68)=3B font-size: 15px=3B"><br></div><div style=3D"line-height: 21px=
=3B color: rgb(68=2C 68=2C 68)=3B font-size: 15px=3B">janSIy</div><br><div>=
<div id=3D"SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id=3D"stopSpelling">From: qeslagh=
@hotmail.com<br>To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br>Date: Sun=2C 5 May 2013 03:22:2=
0 +1000<br>Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] new Klingon [SPOILER]<br><br>=0A=
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<div dir=3D"ltr">ghItlhpu' De'vID=2C jatlh:<br>>=3B wa' tlhIngan mu' jatl=
h 'e' DaQoylaH:<br><div>>=3B https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DyWCEpu2P6I=
U<br><br>vIjangpu' jIH=2C jIjatlh:<br>>=3B Doj - tlhoS jatlhchu'. ghay ru=
r Hay Qav=2C 'ach {mughojmoH} 'oHba'. DaH<br>>=3B jIboHqu'choH!<br><br>ja=
ng je SuStel=2C jatlh:<br>>=3B Dojbe'. I hear "noshmon" spoken as if it w=
ere French.<br><br>The vowel nasality I'm willing to concede=2C though both=
English and Klingon can be spoken with vowel nasality as a non-contrastive=
feature so I consider it acceptable leeway here=2C especially since there =
are two nasal consonants within the word. I'll also concede that the sibila=
nt before the /m/ in the ultima is probably /S/ rather than /j/=2C which wo=
uld make what I heard {mughoSmoH} "it sends me=2C they send me". The voicin=
g of the remainder of the word made it sound to me as though it were voiced=
also=2C but I've just run it through a spectrograph and there is indeed ne=
ither an affrication nor voicing there (I wonder if I misheard the stridenc=
y of the high frequencies of /S/ as representing the affricate burst of /j/=
). I'll gladly lay the blame on my inexperienced ears=3B after all=2C the w=
ord could just as easily be {mughoSmoH}.<br><br>But with respect=2C you've =
misheard the first consonant: it is /m/ and the accompanying visual shows c=
lear bilabial involvement. Also=2C though the articulation is relatively ra=
pid=2C three syllables are definitely present - there's a soft but audible =
voiced dorsal (a velar or an untrilled uvular) midway through what you've h=
eard as the first /o/ and it's visible on the spectrogram too. But lip-roun=
ding is also continuously present from immediately after the /m/ through to=
the sibilant gesture=2C consistent with two rounded vowels /-ugho-/.<br><b=
r>QeS<br></div> </div>=0A=
<br>_______________________________________________=0A=
Tlhingan-hol mailing list=0A=
Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org=0A=
http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</div> =
</div></body>
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