[96155] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Use of -'e'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (David Trimboli)
Fri May 3 11:25:58 2013
Date: Fri, 03 May 2013 11:25:31 -0400
From: David Trimboli <david@trimboli.name>
To: tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
In-Reply-To: <CAG84SOsYD2ajp4yHZnccgBnbvHSB0HAGU8ij2MS=NQc_P6N9eg@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
On 5/2/2013 10:45 PM, nIqolay q wrote:
> The canon phrase "qIbDaq SuvwI''e' SoH Dun law' Hoch Dun puS" suggests
> that a noun phrase with -'e' can be used to specify a group or set to
> which the rest of the sentence applies, and I was wondering if this
> interpretation is well-accepted, and if so, if it could be easily
> generalized.
{SuvwI''e'} is behaving normally as the TOPIC of the sentence. "This =
sentence is about warriors." This sentence is the only example of -'e' =
in the "header" space.
-'e' is described in TKD as being a topicalizer, but then the examples =
it shows are not topics, but emphasis. In an issue of HolQeD, Marc =
Okrand accepted this correction by Will Martin. This correction came =
after THE FINAL FRONTIER, which included the line you quote with the =
topic noun.
I generally accept sentences with topic-nouns=97they follow the rules and =
there is that single example. However, you must be careful not to try to =
cram the wrong kind of information into a topic. If you can't extract =
the topic noun and stick "this sentence is about <noun>" and still have =
it make sense, then you need to recast.
> 1) nuHmeywIj'e' betleHvetlh ngo' law' Hoch ngo' puS ("That bat'leth is
> the oldest weapon I have.") is probably okay, it's just the same
> format as the canon sentence.
"This sentence is about my weapons: that bat'leth is the oldest." I =
accept this.
> 2) tera'nganpu''e' bIyoHqu' ("You're pretty brave for a Terran.")
"This sentence is about Terrans: you are BRAVE." I find this less =
acceptable, but not completely unacceptable. {bIyoHqu'} doesn't imply a =
second party the way the comparative does=97you need a second party to =
compare with. If you can make the mental leap to {SoH yoH law' tera'ngan =
motlh yoH puS}, it could work, but I'd rather see it recast.
> 3) juppu'lI''e' muqaDqang 'Iv ("Who among your friends is willing to
> face me?") seems the least likely to be acceptable, it's similar in
> format to a "which" question ("Which of your friends...") and those
> are typically phrased as imperatives with ngu'.
"This sentence is about your friends: who is willing to challenge me?" =
This is find acceptable, as you're asking for a third party, and you =
know the topic includes potential third parties.
You can further emphasize the appropriateness of the topic by putting it =
at the beginning of the translation with a full-stop after it (and don't =
interpret it as exasperation):
"My weapons. That bat'leth is the oldest." Good
"Terrans. You are BRAVE." Bad
"Your friends. Who is willing to challenge me?" Good
-- =
SuStel
http://www.trimboli.name/
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