[96015] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Dothraki nugh vIghal
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (David Holt)
Wed Apr 10 12:38:37 2013
From: David Holt <kenjutsuka@live.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 11:38:08 -0500
In-Reply-To: <CABND55G1i0xd7HUzUn+8zwBHi+CQXWS8=W9TBy8TnyebK33y6g@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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When learning a natural language you are tempted to make the language work =
the way you want. However=2C since there is a native language community=2C=
you don't get to make the changes you wish the language had and you must i=
nstead work to learn how to use the language the way the natives do.When le=
arning an artificial language=2C your mind knows that it's all been created=
and there is no reason that some rule has to be a certain way except that =
someone has declared it so. It seems like=2C if you come up with a better =
way to do it you should be able to convince others that the language should=
actually work that way. Thus beginners show up with grand ideas about how=
the language can be improved and/or expanded. People who have learned to =
follow the current rules resist these attempts at change and the beginner g=
ets frustrated that he is not being listened to and quits. Or in Noah's wo=
rds=2C "the lack of community involvement in its furtherment... makes growi=
ng the speaking base hard."I feel little sympathy for those that never put =
the effort into learning to speak the language the way it exists. When you=
can discuss your wishes for the language in the language=2C then maybe you=
have a right to complain. But for most speakers=2C by the time they get t=
here=2C they realize that they don't need to make those changes and that=2C=
in fact=2C those changes hurt the uniqueness and character of the language=
.I understand the desire to have more active growth into yet unexplored are=
as=2C but I disagree that the lack of more new words is what is keeping the=
Klingon speaking community small.
However=2C I do agree with De'vID that we need a working website=2C STAT. =
We need to be ready to receive new potential members when the new movie com=
es out.
Jeremy
Date: Mon=2C 8 Apr 2013 16:28:08 -0400
From: nbtheduke@gmail.com
CC: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Dothraki nugh vIghal
In my heretical opinion=2C I feel like Klingon stagnates because we're stuc=
k waiting on MO for new words and constructions. Obviously=2C he's great=2C=
but the lack of community involvement in its furtherment=2C as I see it=2C=
makes growing the speaking base hard.
=
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'><span style=3D"color: rgb(68=2C =
68=2C 68)=3B font-size: 15px=3B line-height: 21px=3B">When learning a natur=
al language you are tempted to make the language work the way you want. &nb=
sp=3BHowever=2C since there is a native language community=2C you don't get=
to make the changes you wish the language had and you must instead work to=
learn how to use the language the way the natives do.</span><br style=3D"l=
ine-height: 21px=3B color: rgb(68=2C 68=2C 68)=3B font-size: 15px=3B"><br s=
tyle=3D"line-height: 21px=3B color: rgb(68=2C 68=2C 68)=3B font-size: 15px=
=3B"><span style=3D"color: rgb(68=2C 68=2C 68)=3B font-size: 15px=3B line-h=
eight: 21px=3B">When learning an artificial language=2C your mind knows tha=
t it's all been created and there is no reason that some rule has to be a c=
ertain way except that someone has declared it so.  =3BIt seems like=2C=
if you come up with a better way to do it you should be able to convince o=
thers that the language should actually work that way.  =3BThus beginne=
rs show up with grand ideas about how the language can be improved and/or e=
xpanded.  =3BPeople who have learned to follow the current rules resist=
these attempts at change and the beginner gets frustrated that he is not b=
eing listened to and quits.  =3BOr in Noah's words=2C "the lack of comm=
unity involvement in its furtherment... makes growing the speaking base har=
d."</span><br style=3D"line-height: 21px=3B color: rgb(68=2C 68=2C 68)=3B f=
ont-size: 15px=3B"><br style=3D"line-height: 21px=3B color: rgb(68=2C 68=2C=
68)=3B font-size: 15px=3B"><span style=3D"color: rgb(68=2C 68=2C 68)=3B fo=
nt-size: 15px=3B line-height: 21px=3B">I feel little sympathy for those tha=
t never put the effort into learning to speak the language the way it exist=
s.  =3BWhen you can discuss your wishes for the language in the languag=
e=2C then maybe you have a right to complain.  =3BBut for most speakers=
=2C by the time they get there=2C they realize that they don't need to make=
those changes and that=2C in fact=2C those changes hurt the uniqueness and=
character of the language.</span><br style=3D"line-height: 21px=3B color: =
rgb(68=2C 68=2C 68)=3B font-size: 15px=3B"><br style=3D"line-height: 21px=
=3B color: rgb(68=2C 68=2C 68)=3B font-size: 15px=3B"><span style=3D"color:=
rgb(68=2C 68=2C 68)=3B font-size: 15px=3B line-height: 21px=3B">I understa=
nd the desire to have more active growth into yet unexplored areas=2C but I=
disagree that the lack of more new words is what is keeping the Klingon sp=
eaking community small.</span><div style=3D"line-height: 21px=3B color: rgb=
(68=2C 68=2C 68)=3B font-size: 15px=3B"><br></div><div style=3D"line-height=
: 21px=3B color: rgb(68=2C 68=2C 68)=3B font-size: 15px=3B">However=2C I do=
agree with De'vID that we need a working website=2C STAT.  =3BWe need =
to be ready to receive new potential members when the new movie comes out.<=
br><div><br></div><div>Jeremy<br><br><div><div id=3D"ecxSkyDrivePlaceholder=
"></div><hr id=3D"ecxstopSpelling">Date: Mon=2C 8 Apr 2013 16:28:08 -0400<b=
r>From: nbtheduke@gmail.com<br>CC: tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br>Subject: Re: [Tl=
hingan-hol] Dothraki nugh vIghal<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">In my heretical op=
inion=2C I feel like Klingon stagnates because we're stuck waiting on MO fo=
r new words and constructions. Obviously=2C he's great=2C but the lack of c=
ommunity involvement in its furtherment=2C as I see it=2C makes growing the=
speaking base hard.<br></div><div class=3D"ecxgmail_extra"><br></div></div=
></div></div> </div></body>
</html>=
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