[95502] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] jolly?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Tue Jan 8 15:46:59 2013
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 12:46:13 -0800
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
From: Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
In-Reply-To: <F52986192E9FE346B0B7EF3D6F98E8771227597D@EXDB3.ug.kth.se>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
Digression alert: English has a habit of turning =
words that have a positive connotation into =
intensifiers that aren't necessarily positive:
"A good distance to fall."
"A fair amount owing."
"A great distance to walk."
"A mighty difficult problem."
"A terrific headache." (But maybe that one was =
terror-ific before terrific became positive).
"A jolly good fellow." (I never though of it that =
way before, but Felix is probably right).
Is this common in languages? It's in Klingon, =
where the exclamation qu' is positive, even something could be qabqu'?
- Qov
At 12:28 '?????' 1/8/2013, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:
>Does the "jolly" in "jolly good fellow" actually =
>mean "happy"? I've always interpreted it as a =
>jovial intensifier, and looking at some =
>translations into Earth languages, it seems =
>others have simply interpreted "jolly good =
>fellow" as "a really good guy" or "a true =
>friend" ("bravo ragazzo", "muchacho excelente", "buen compa=F1ero", etc.).
>So, I might recommend something like {jupna' =
>ghaH[bej]mo' <name>'e'}. Maybe turn "And so say =
>all of us" into {DaHjaj wIquvqu'moH} or something.
>
>Anyhow, it appears Troi and company actually =
>translated that song into some other dialect than the tlhIngan ta' Hol.
>Interestingly enough, the "Klingon" lyrics to =
>this song can be found on Wikipedia: =
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_He%27s_a_Jolly_Good_Fellow#Klingon_version
>
> > I don't have any record of Okrand opining on the question, nor of the f=
orm
> > *{Quchqu'} in my notes, though it would seem to fit.
>
>I suspect that while the literal meaning of =
>"jolly" carries over quite well, there might not =
>be a term which simultaneously has similarly =
>jovial connotations. The words {maqoch} and =
>{chaj}, and the expression {wIj jup}, may have =
>similar connotations, but have a different literal meaning.
>
> > Anything in the paq'batlh, guys?
>
>Nope; no uses of the words "happy" or "jolly", =
>and the only uses of {Quch} refer to foreheads.
>________________________________________
>From: Steven Boozer [sboozer@uchicago.edu]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 21:04
>To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] jolly?
>
>De'vID:
> > I have a recollection of reading somewhere that MO was asked how to
> > translate "jolly good [fellow]", and his replied contained {Quchqu'}
> > and a remark that Troi (in the STTNG episode "Parallels") was wrong to
> > say that Klingon doesn't have a word for "jolly". Was it in an issue
> > of HolQeD? On a mailing list? Or am I imaging things?
>
>In TNG "Parallels" Troi commented on the =
>difficulties of translating the song "For He's a =
>Jolly Good Fellow" into Klingon that, "There =
>doesn't seem to be a Klingon word for 'jolly'."
>
>I don't have any record of Okrand opining on the =
>question, nor of the form *{Quchqu'} in my notes, though it would seem to =
fit.
>
>FYI {Quch} "be happy" in canon:
>
> jIQuch
> I am happy. KLS
>
> loD Quch jIHbe'
> I am not a merry man. TKW
>
> De'vetlh vIQoy, vaj jIQuch
> I am happy to hear that information. KGT
>
>AFAIK there are no examples of {QuchHa'} "be unhappy" in canon.
>
>Anything in the paq'batlh, guys?
>
>
>--
>Voragh
>Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
>http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
>http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
