[95114] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Close female friend of a male?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh)
Thu Nov 29 10:06:43 2012
From: Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
To: <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 01:06:19 +1000
In-Reply-To: <50B730A1.9020401@gmx.de>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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ghItlhpu' naHQun=2C jatlh:
> We have chaj and maqoch for close friends of the same gender=2C but no
> words for close friends of the opposite gender.
jang Quvar=2C jatlh:
> I first I had the idea to extend the meaning and "misuse" the word=2C but=
=20
> now I just read in KGT that doing exactly this is not allowed:
Indeed. To do so is highly insulting.
taH:
> On the previous page=2C it is suggested to use {jupna'} for close friends=
=2C=20
> "real friend=2C good friend".
Ah=2C yes! Thanks for reminding me of that passage.
> Using {-oy} on {jup} sounds wrong. Usually=2C only children use it=2C and=
=20
> romantic partners use it in the {bang pong}.
With due respect=2C I think you're interpreting the KGT passage too restric=
tively. It focuses specifically on the way {-oy}-marked terms are used betw=
een parents and children. It says nothing about how=2C say=2C brothers and =
sisters might use {-oy} when referring to each other (and we know that it c=
an be so used: {be'nI'oy} "sis"=2C TKD p.174). In fact=2C TKD says that the=
term can be used not only with kinship terms=2C but even with nouns referr=
ing to pets. If pets are fair game for {-oy}=2C surely dear friends would b=
e too.
Of course=2C they'd have to be *extremely* good friends to go beyond {jupna=
'}=2C but that's a matter of context. In my context=2C for instance=2C I'm =
still happy with using {jupoywI'}: the original Georgian is /dao asmat/ "o =
sister Asmat!". The use of not just a word for "friend"=2C but an actual ki=
nship term=2C implies an extremely close relationship that I don't think is=
well captured even by {jupna'}=2C but in a literal rendering as {be'nI'wI'=
}=2C the metaphor doesn't transfer well.
QeS
=
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
ghItlhpu' naHQun=2C jatlh:<br>>=3B We have chaj and maqoch for close frie=
nds of the same gender=2C but no<br><div>>=3B words for close friends of =
the opposite gender.<br><br>jang Quvar=2C jatlh:<br>>=3B I first I had th=
e idea to extend the meaning and "misuse" the word=2C but <br>>=3B now I =
just read in KGT that doing exactly this is not allowed:<br><br>Indeed. To =
do so is highly insulting.<br><br>taH:<br>>=3B On the previous page=2C it=
is suggested to use {jupna'} for close friends=2C <br>>=3B "real friend=
=2C good friend".<br><br>Ah=2C yes! Thanks for reminding me of that passage=
.<br><br>>=3B Using {-oy} on {jup} sounds wrong. Usually=2C only children=
use it=2C and <br>>=3B romantic partners use it in the {bang pong}.<br><=
br>With due respect=2C I think you're interpreting the KGT passage too rest=
rictively. It focuses specifically on the way {-oy}-marked terms are used b=
etween parents and children. It says nothing about how=2C say=2C brothers a=
nd sisters might use {-oy} when referring to each other (and we know that i=
t can be so used: {be'nI'oy} "sis"=2C TKD p.174). In fact=2C TKD says that =
the term can be used not only with kinship terms=2C but even with nouns ref=
erring to pets. If pets are fair game for {-oy}=2C surely dear friends woul=
d be too.<br><br>Of course=2C they'd have to be *extremely* good friends to=
go beyond {jupna'}=2C but that's a matter of context. In my context=2C for=
instance=2C I'm still happy with using {jupoywI'}: the original Georgian i=
s /dao asmat/ "o sister Asmat!". The use of not just a word for "friend"=2C=
but an actual kinship term=2C implies an extremely close relationship that=
I don't think is well captured even by {jupna'}=2C but in a literal render=
ing as {be'nI'wI'}=2C the metaphor doesn't transfer well.<br><br>QeS<br></d=
iv> </div></body>
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