[94422] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] mIl'oD veDDIr SuvwI': 'ay''a' cha' - 8. loD Quch
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh)
Sat Aug 18 01:38:07 2012
From: Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
To: <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:37:47 +1000
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120816224932.0410c6e8@flyingstart.ca>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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jIjatlhpu':
> The 'ay''a'mey are divided as they appear in the=20
> original text=2C so the length is going to be=20
> variable. The first one was shortish=3B this one's=20
> a little longer. Here begins the second 'ay''a':=20
> mIl'oD veDDIr tuQbogh SuvwI' legh roStevan.
mujang Qov=2C jatlh:
> Daj. mIl'oD veDDIr tuQ Sub wIQIHpu'bogh 'e' vIpIH 'ach nov ghaH.
HIja'. loytaH laDwI' 'e' vItul.
jIH:
> tlhoS mInDu'Daj DoqchoHmoHlaw'pu' 'Iw'e' nIjmoHbogh tIqDaj 'IQ.
Qov:
> regh mInDu'Daj qen 'e' DaQIj. 'ach vIlaDDI'=20
> SoQtaHmo' DoqchoH neH. mIn 'aDDu'Daq 'Iw tu'lu'mo' SaQ.
Remember how I mentioned how I was going to stick with DoqchoH for crying i=
nstead of trying to translate "tears"? This is why. I'm trying very hard to=
use Klingon metaphors=2C and this is one of those. Since blood is a symbol=
of power to Klingons (as in what KGT says with the simile HoS=3B 'Iw rur)=
=2C I'm constructing the metaphor that having one's eyes be reddened from c=
rying (not actually bleeding) could be because your eyes "have more blood" =
in them and therefore are a sign of stronger emotion. Also=2C as you've fou=
nd out=2C the poem does talk about weeping actual blood=2C even in the orig=
inal Georgian=2C when those emotions run particularly high. So I thought th=
is was a nice link to that.
jIH:
> porghDajDaq cheSvel tIq tuQtaH[1]=2C
Qov:
> taQ. yInbogh cheSvelvo' tlhap'a'? ghobe'=2C=20
> Qov. tIq ghajqu' chemvaH. tIqlaHqu' cheSvel.
Heh. :)
jIH:
> tIq 'IQ ghajlaw'bogh SuvwI'vaD jatlhmeH=2C wa'=20
> toy'wI''a'Daj ghoSmoH 'utlh. SuvwI' chol=20
> toy'wI''a'=2C 'ach ghoSpu'DI'=2C jatlh'eghchoHmoHlaHbe'qu' ghaH.
Qov:
> I'm not sure I can parse that. The slave couldn't=20
> bring himself to talk at all? The stranger was=20
> not at all able to make the slave talk to=20
> himself? Reading on=2C I think it's the former.
bIlugh.
=20
> Might be clearer if it followed the next two=20
> sentences. But it could be omitted altogether.
vIQaypu'.
jIH:
> jotHa'choH toy'wI''a'=3B loD HujvaD jatlh 'e'=20
> ngIlbe'. HoSchoHpa' tIqDaj=2C toy'wI''a'vaD 'ut=20
> loSmeH poH nI'. tagha' chol'eghmoHchu' 'ej=20
> pe'vIlHa'[3] jatlh'eghmoH: =ABDura' roStevan 'utlh=3B DaghoS neH ghaH.=BB
Qov:
> 'ach SaQtaH SuvwI'=2C nachDaj joDmoHpu' ghaH=3B pagh=20
> Qoylaw' ghaH 'ej pa' ghaHtaH toy'wI''a''e' 'e'=20
> tlhojbe'law'. toy'wI''a' SoQHom 'Ijbe'law'=2C negh beymey Qoybe'law'=2C
jIH:
> beymey bIHbej'a'? chaq qaq <jach negh 'e' Qoybe'law'>.
HIja'=2C yap. vIlo'.
jIH:
> yabDaj tepHeymo' pagh buSlaw'. pe'vIl SaQtaH SuvwI'=2C nachDaj joDmoHpu' =
ghaH=3B
Qov:
> wejlogh Dajatlhpu'. waDIch vIyajpu'.
C'mon=2C I'm trying to be poetic here! :) Fair enough. I've deleted two of =
them.
jIH:
> ngengHommey[4] pay' legh toy'wI''a'. SuvwI'vaD=20
> 'utlh QIn jatlhqa' toy'wI''a'. 'ach mIl'oD=20
> veDDIr SuvwI''e'=2C SaQbe'choHQo' 'ej nachDaj=20
> joDHa'moHQo'=3B wuSDu'Dajvo' pagh mu' Qoylu'.
Qov:
> jIlwI' puq rur=2C 'ach jachtaH jIlwI' puq=2C SaQtaHvIS.
lorloDwI' rur je. Do'=2C pIjHa' SaQ ghaH=3B motlh jot.
> jaHchoH toy'wI''a'pu'=3B SuvwI' luchol=2C=20
> mup'eghtaHvIS may'luchchaj. ngugh QoyDI' SuvwI'=2C=20
> pay' QamchoH=2C SaQqu'taHvIS. mInDu'Daj pep 'ej=20
> roStevan lutoy'bogh SuvwI' ghom legh. wa' mu' neH jatlh: =ABbaQa'!=BB
Qov:
> I suddenly wonder if he locked his keys in his=20
> car=2C er=2C horse. I get upset when I do that.
toH=2C Sargh tIjlaHchugh vay'... :P
jIH:
> latlh jatlhQo'. mInDu' yachmeH ghopDu'Daj lo' 'ej qabDaj ghun QaDmoH.
Qov:
> Weird adjective.
ghun "warm"? taQ nuq?
jIH:
> yanDaj QeymoH=2C
Qov:
> One can QeymoH a yan? chay'?
The English translator can probably explain that... How does lelrupchoH wor=
k for you?
jIH:
> DubDajDaq nIch vaHDaj tuQ'eghmoH=2C DeS'a'DajDaq
Qov:
> DeSDu' ghajbe''a'? mumISmoH DeS'a'. DeS tIn vImaS=2C DeS'a'meyqoqvam DaQI=
jbe'mo'.
yajchu'. vIchoH.
jIH:
> DuQwI' poghDaj tuQ'eghmoH.
Qov:
> SaQtaH'a'?
HIja'. 'e' vIQIjnISchu''a'?
jIH:
> [4] The Georgian is /nagubari/ "dam=2C pool".
Qov:
> I remember when I first needed the term "drops of=20
> blood" in french and didn't know it. I just=20
> started the sentence=2C about someone will=20
> ill-fitting shoes=2C something like=2C "Nous toujours=20
> pouvons la trouver parce qu'on peut suivre les=20
> ..." and someone filled in "gouts de sang?" which=20
> I just knew was right=2C because what other phrase=20
> would have blood in it that way?
jIHagh!
QeS
=
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
jIjatlhpu':<br>>=3B The 'ay''a'mey are divided as they appear in the <br>=
<div>>=3B original text=2C so the length is going to be <br>>=3B variab=
le. The first one was shortish=3B this one's <br>>=3B a little longer. He=
re begins the second 'ay''a': <br>>=3B mIl'oD veDDIr tuQbogh SuvwI' legh =
roStevan.<br><br>mujang Qov=2C jatlh:<br>>=3B Daj. mIl'oD veDDIr tuQ Sub =
wIQIHpu'bogh 'e' vIpIH 'ach nov ghaH.<br><br>HIja'. loytaH laDwI' 'e' vItul=
.<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B tlhoS mInDu'Daj DoqchoHmoHlaw'pu' 'Iw'e' nIjmoHbogh=
tIqDaj 'IQ.<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B regh mInDu'Daj qen 'e' DaQIj. 'ach vIlaD=
DI' <br>>=3B SoQtaHmo' DoqchoH neH. mIn 'aDDu'Daq 'Iw tu'lu'mo' SaQ.<br><=
br>Remember how I mentioned how I was going to stick with DoqchoH for cryin=
g instead of trying to translate "tears"? This is why. I'm trying very hard=
to use Klingon metaphors=2C and this is one of those. Since blood is a sym=
bol of power to Klingons (as in what KGT says with the simile HoS=3B 'Iw ru=
r)=2C I'm constructing the metaphor that having one's eyes be reddened from=
crying (not actually bleeding) could be because your eyes "have more blood=
" in them and therefore are a sign of stronger emotion. Also=2C as you've f=
ound out=2C the poem does talk about weeping actual blood=2C even in the or=
iginal Georgian=2C when those emotions run particularly high. So I thought =
this was a nice link to that.<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B porghDajDaq cheSvel tIq=
tuQtaH[1]=2C<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B taQ. yInbogh cheSvelvo' tlhap'a'? ghob=
e'=2C <br>>=3B Qov. tIq ghajqu' chemvaH. tIqlaHqu' cheSvel.<br><br>Heh. =
:)<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B tIq 'IQ ghajlaw'bogh SuvwI'vaD jatlhmeH=2C wa' <br=
>>=3B toy'wI''a'Daj ghoSmoH 'utlh. SuvwI' chol <br>>=3B toy'wI''a'=2C '=
ach ghoSpu'DI'=2C jatlh'eghchoHmoHlaHbe'qu' ghaH.<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B I'm=
not sure I can parse that. The slave couldn't <br>>=3B bring himself to =
talk at all? The stranger was <br>>=3B not at all able to make the slave =
talk to <br>>=3B himself? Reading on=2C I think it's the former.<br><br>b=
Ilugh.<br> =3B<br>>=3B Might be clearer if it followed the next two <=
br>>=3B sentences. But it could be omitted altogether.<br><br>vIQaypu'.<b=
r><br>jIH:<br>>=3B jotHa'choH toy'wI''a'=3B loD HujvaD jatlh 'e' <br>>=
=3B ngIlbe'. HoSchoHpa' tIqDaj=2C toy'wI''a'vaD 'ut <br>>=3B loSmeH poH n=
I'. tagha' chol'eghmoHchu' 'ej <br>>=3B pe'vIlHa'[3] jatlh'eghmoH: =ABDur=
a' roStevan 'utlh=3B DaghoS neH ghaH.=BB<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B 'ach SaQtaH =
SuvwI'=2C nachDaj joDmoHpu' ghaH=3B pagh <br>>=3B Qoylaw' ghaH 'ej pa' gh=
aHtaH toy'wI''a''e' 'e' <br>>=3B tlhojbe'law'. toy'wI''a' SoQHom 'Ijbe'la=
w'=2C negh beymey Qoybe'law'=2C<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B beymey bIHbej'a'? cha=
q qaq <=3Bjach negh 'e' Qoybe'law'>=3B.<br><br>HIja'=2C yap. vIlo'.<br>=
<br>jIH:<br>>=3B yabDaj tepHeymo' pagh buSlaw'. pe'vIl SaQtaH SuvwI'=2C n=
achDaj joDmoHpu' ghaH=3B<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B wejlogh Dajatlhpu'. waDIch v=
Iyajpu'.<br><br>C'mon=2C I'm trying to be poetic here! :) Fair enough. I've=
deleted two of them.<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B ngengHommey[4] pay' legh toy'wI=
''a'. SuvwI'vaD <br>>=3B 'utlh QIn jatlhqa' toy'wI''a'. 'ach mIl'oD <br>&=
gt=3B veDDIr SuvwI''e'=2C SaQbe'choHQo' 'ej nachDaj <br>>=3B joDHa'moHQo'=
=3B wuSDu'Dajvo' pagh mu' Qoylu'.<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B jIlwI' puq rur=2C '=
ach jachtaH jIlwI' puq=2C SaQtaHvIS.<br><br>lorloDwI' rur je. Do'=2C pIjHa'=
SaQ ghaH=3B motlh jot.<br><br>>=3B jaHchoH toy'wI''a'pu'=3B SuvwI' lucho=
l=2C <br>>=3B mup'eghtaHvIS may'luchchaj. ngugh QoyDI' SuvwI'=2C <br>>=
=3B pay' QamchoH=2C SaQqu'taHvIS. mInDu'Daj pep 'ej <br>>=3B roStevan lut=
oy'bogh SuvwI' ghom legh. wa' mu' neH jatlh: =ABbaQa'!=BB<br><br>Qov:<br>&g=
t=3B I suddenly wonder if he locked his keys in his <br>>=3B car=2C er=2C=
horse. I get upset when I do that.<br><br>toH=2C Sargh tIjlaHchugh vay'..=
. :P<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B latlh jatlhQo'. mInDu' yachmeH ghopDu'Daj lo' 'e=
j qabDaj ghun QaDmoH.<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B Weird adjective.<br><br>ghun "w=
arm"? taQ nuq?<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B yanDaj QeymoH=2C<br><br>Qov:<br>>=
=3B One can QeymoH a yan? chay'?<br><br>The English translator can probably=
explain that... How does lelrupchoH work for you?<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B Du=
bDajDaq nIch vaHDaj tuQ'eghmoH=2C DeS'a'DajDaq<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B DeSDu'=
ghajbe''a'? mumISmoH DeS'a'. DeS tIn vImaS=2C DeS'a'meyqoqvam DaQIjbe'mo'.=
<br><br>yajchu'. vIchoH.<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B DuQwI' poghDaj tuQ'eghmoH.<b=
r><br>Qov:<br>>=3B SaQtaH'a'?<br><br>HIja'. 'e' vIQIjnISchu''a'?<br><br>j=
IH:<br>>=3B [4] The Georgian is /nagubari/ "dam=2C pool".<br><br>Qov:<br>=
>=3B I remember when I first needed the term "drops of <br>>=3B blood" =
in french and didn't know it. I just <br>>=3B started the sentence=2C abo=
ut someone will <br>>=3B ill-fitting shoes=2C something like=2C "Nous tou=
jours <br>>=3B pouvons la trouver parce qu'on peut suivre les <br>>=3B =
..." and someone filled in "gouts de sang?" which <br>>=3B I just knew wa=
s right=2C because what other phrase <br>>=3B would have blood in it that=
way?<br><br>jIHagh!<br><br>QeS<br></div> </div></body>
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