[94211] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] nuq bop bom: 'ay' cha'vatlh cha'maH chorgh:
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (ghunchu'wI' 'utlh)
Mon Jul 30 16:43:02 2012
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120702131049.04692440@flyingstart.ca>
From: "ghunchu'wI' 'utlh" <qunchuy@alcaco.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:42:24 -0400
To: Klingon language email discussion forum <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Qov <robyn@flyingstart.ca> wrote:
> 228 maghlu'
>
mIghwI' maghlu''a'? quvwI' maghlu''a'? ghaH maghlu'bogh vISovmeH pe'vIl
vIlaD.
> =ABDaH=BB, jatlh qoreQ. =ABtlhIH. nuq boghoS?=BB nab Del vajar. jonwI' ch=
oQ
> luDoQmeH lotlhwI'pu', veQ lI' choQDaq vajar QollaH qoreQ
**
I'll accept it either way, but I need to point out that you're using {Qol}
inconsistently. Until this instance, I think you were consistent in placing
the traveler as the subject. Here, though, you've treated it the way you do
{jol}, with the transporter operator as the subject and the person
traveling as the object (which is my preference, incidentally).
> 'ej chaHvaD ghu' QIjlaH vajar, Hung HotlhwI'Daq jIHtaHvIS Hota'ro', ghuta=
r
> je. muD rIlDI' vajar,
What I get most strongly from {muD rIl} is "blow a raspberry". After
careful thought, I guess you mean "give a thumbs up sign". Either of them
could be a reasonable signal.
> jonwI' choQDaq lotlhwI' ghom lujol.
>
jol qoreQ 'ar? toH, nIteb vajar jollu' 'e' vIyajchoH. jolpa'Daq ratlh
latlhpu'.
> nab laj qoreQ. jolpat ravDaq gho' vajar. nISwI' beH, betleH je qemtaH
> vajar[274],
>
pu' HIchDaj lonpu''a'?
> 'ach lotlhwI'pu' HIvmoHbe'meH DubDajDaq beH qem 'ej ghopDajvo' HuStaH neH
> betleH. jolpat SeHlaw buS qoreQ 'ej leQmey law' 'uy. tagha' vajar
> leghlaHghach wewchoHmoH jol 'ej ngoSchoH pa'.
>
> ngoSHa'lI' chob chIm. lurghDaj wIvmeH 'IjchoH vajar. ghaH tlhopDaq
> ghoghmey QoylaHmo' DuvchoH. lotlhwI'pu'vaD jatlhrupmeH pur vajar. Huj. ma=
y'
> larghlaHbe'. chaq chobvamvaD jaS 'el muD ngeb.
>
pagh chaq chIch chob mujDaq jolta' lotlhbe'bogh qoreQ.
> vajar retlhDaq pum vay' mach. ngu'laHpa' vajar, jor. wovqu'choHmo' chob,
> leghlaHbe'. pe'vIl muplaw'mo' muD tlhoS tlhuHlaHbe'.
>
ghaytan QoylaHbe' je.
> nom chob lu'el negh law'. 'omqu'bej vajar 'ach chIch Hub'eghrupbe'pu'mo'
> lujchu'.
>
**
chIch wunmo', chaq <-ta'> qaq law' <-pu'> qaq puS.
> vulchoH. mInDu'Daj poSqa'laHDI', joy'wI' pa'Daq ghaHtaH.
>
qab De' 'ej QaQ De'. jonba'ta' qImyal. 'ach Do'qu'chugh 'ej valchugh,
pa'Daq jollu' 'e' chaw'meH Hung pat ngeplaH.
> vajar 'emDaq yebDu'Daj tay'moH tlhoy' rarbogh mIrmey Qey'e'. DaSmey
> tuQbe'taH. ngIbDu'Daj rartaH je mIr, 'ej rav rar. 'oy'choH volchaHDu'Daj.
>
**
I can make {tlhoy'/rav rar mIr} work without stretching the meaning of
{rar} to include a "connect *to*" idea, but just barely. Rephrasing it is
not necessary, but it might make it read a little more smoothly.
> ngaQHa'moHwI' wab Qoy. poSmoH lojmIt 'ej 'el qImyal Sa'. quSDaq ba'choH
> Sa'. vajar bejchoH Sa'. tlhoy' bejtaH vajar 'ach Sa' leghlaH.
>
After having {bej} used this way often in the story, "facing the wall"
comes very easily to mind. I hope it isn't an abuse of the word's true
meaning.
> jatlh qImyal, =ABqanoHHa'pu', vajar HoD. qIQmeH yaSpu'wI' DaponlaH 'e'
> vIloybe'. 'et tach boQaw'pu' ja' HungpInwI'. bIHem'a'?=BB
>
tach Qaw'pu' 'e' buSlaw' HungpIn. raSmeyvetlh SaHqu'ba' jay'! ram'a'
Heghbogh negh?
**
{ja'} isn't being used the way I expect that it should here: {boQaw'pu'}
has the wrong prefix for it to be reported speech.
> 'et tach SaH'a' Sa'? QaSDaj nawlogh luQaw'ta' je.
>
tu' je vajar. maj.
> jatlh vajar, =ABqIQchoHmeH vIponbe'. qIQrup chaH. 'eb vInob neH.=BB
>
> jatlh qImyal, =ABQupwI'pu'vaD 'eb Danobmo' loQ bInoy. pIj nInaD
> nItoy'pu'bogh beqpu'.=BB
>
> noy'a' vajar? machmo' Dugh 'ej pIj Dalmo' Qu'meyDaj, reH vajar toy' beqpu=
'
> Qup, beqpu''e' lajHa'ta'bogh latlhpu' je. ghojmoHtaH vajar. ghojmoH 'e' t=
Iv
> 'ej ghojwI'pu'Daj SaHqu'.
>
maj. ja' vIttlhegh lI' =ABghojwI'pu'lI' tISaH=BB.
> pIj Dujmey potlh toy'choH, vajar toy'pu'DI'. chaHmo' Hem vajar. jatlh
> =ABvIvuvmo' 'ej vIghongbe'mo' batlh mutoy'.=BB
>
vuvbe' qImyal 'ej ghong, 'e' chuplaw' vajar.
> mIwmeyDaj ghojwI'pu'Daj je DelmeH vajar yu'choH qImyal. peghmey bIHbe'mo'
> jatlhqang vajar. 'op mIwmeyDaj Ho' qImyal. 'oy'taH vajar volchaHDu' 'ach
> ghu'vam SIQlaHbej.
>
wej qImyal Dup vIyaj. peghDaj ghojpu' Qa'bar 'e' Sovbe''a'?
-- ghunchu'wI'
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<div>On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Qov <<a href=3D"mailto:robyn@flyin=
gstart.ca">robyn@flyingstart.ca</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>228 maghlu'</div></blockquote>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>mIghwI' maghlu''a'? quvwI' maghlu''a'?=
ghaH maghlu'bogh vISovmeH pe'vIl vIlaD.<br>=A0<br></div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">=ABDaH=BB, jatlh qoreQ. =ABtlhIH. nuq=
boghoS?=BB nab Del vajar. jonwI' choQ luDoQmeH lotlhwI'pu', ve=
Q lI' choQDaq vajar QollaH qoreQ</blockquote>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>**<br>I'll accept it either way, but I need to point out that you&=
#39;re using {Qol} inconsistently. Until this instance, I think you were co=
nsistent in placing the traveler as the subject. Here, though, you've t=
reated it the way you do {jol}, with the transporter operator as the subjec=
t and the person traveling as the object (which is my preference, incidenta=
lly).</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">'ej chaHvaD ghu' QIjlaH vajar=
, Hung HotlhwI'Daq jIHtaHvIS Hota'ro', ghutar je. muD rIlDI'=
; vajar,</blockquote>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>What I get most strongly from {muD rIl} is "blow a raspberry"=
;. After careful thought, I guess you mean "give a thumbs up sign"=
;. Either of them could be a reasonable signal.</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<p>jonwI' choQDaq lotlhwI' ghom lujol.</p></blockquote>
<p>jol qoreQ 'ar? toH, nIteb vajar jollu' 'e' vIyajchoH. jo=
lpa'Daq ratlh latlhpu'.</p>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<p>nab laj qoreQ. jolpat ravDaq gho' vajar. nISwI' beH, betleH je q=
emtaH vajar[274],</p></blockquote>
<p>pu' HIchDaj lonpu''a'?</p>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<p>'ach lotlhwI'pu' HIvmoHbe'meH DubDajDaq beH qem 'ej =
ghopDajvo' HuStaH neH betleH. jolpat SeHlaw buS qoreQ 'ej leQmey la=
w' 'uy. tagha' vajar leghlaHghach wewchoHmoH jol 'ej ngoSch=
oH pa'.<br>
<br>ngoSHa'lI' chob chIm. lurghDaj wIvmeH 'IjchoH vajar. ghaH t=
lhopDaq ghoghmey QoylaHmo' DuvchoH. lotlhwI'pu'vaD jatlhrupmeH =
pur vajar. Huj. may' larghlaHbe'. chaq chobvamvaD jaS 'el muD n=
geb.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>pagh chaq chIch chob mujDaq jolta' lotlhbe'bogh qoreQ.</p>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<p>vajar retlhDaq pum vay' mach. ngu'laHpa' vajar, jor. wovqu&#=
39;choHmo' chob, leghlaHbe'. pe'vIl muplaw'mo' muD tlho=
S tlhuHlaHbe'.</p></blockquote>
<p>ghaytan QoylaHbe' je.</p>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<p>nom chob lu'el negh law'. 'omqu'bej vajar 'ach chIch=
Hub'eghrupbe'pu'mo' lujchu'. </p></blockquote>
<p>**<br>chIch wunmo', chaq <-ta'> qaq law' <-pu'&=
gt; qaq puS.</p>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<p>vulchoH. mInDu'Daj poSqa'laHDI', joy'wI' pa'Daq =
ghaHtaH.</p></blockquote>
<p>qab De' 'ej QaQ De'. jonba'ta' qImyal. 'ach Do&#=
39;qu'chugh 'ej valchugh, pa'Daq jollu' 'e' chaw=
9;meH Hung pat ngeplaH.</p>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<p>vajar 'emDaq yebDu'Daj tay'moH tlhoy' rarbogh mIrmey Qey=
'e'. DaSmey tuQbe'taH. ngIbDu'Daj rartaH je mIr, 'ej ra=
v rar. 'oy'choH volchaHDu'Daj.</p></blockquote>
<p>**<br>I can make {tlhoy'/rav rar mIr} work without stretching the me=
aning of {rar} to include a "connect *to*" idea, but just barely.=
Rephrasing it is not necessary, but it might make it read a little more sm=
oothly.</p>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<p>ngaQHa'moHwI' wab Qoy. poSmoH lojmIt 'ej 'el qImyal Sa&#=
39;. quSDaq ba'choH Sa'. vajar bejchoH Sa'. tlhoy' bejtaH v=
ajar 'ach Sa' leghlaH.</p></blockquote>
<p>After having {bej} used this way often in the story, "facing the wa=
ll" comes very easily to mind. I hope it isn't an abuse of the wor=
d's true meaning.</p>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<p>jatlh qImyal, =ABqanoHHa'pu', vajar HoD. qIQmeH yaSpu'wI'=
; DaponlaH 'e' vIloybe'. 'et tach boQaw'pu' ja'=
HungpInwI'. bIHem'a'?=BB</p></blockquote>
<p>tach Qaw'pu' 'e' buSlaw' HungpIn. raSmeyvetlh SaHqu&=
#39;ba' jay'! ram'a' Heghbogh negh?</p>
<p>**<br>{ja'} isn't being used the way I expect that it should her=
e: {boQaw'pu'} has the wrong prefix for it to be reported speech.</=
p>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<p>'et tach SaH'a' Sa'? QaSDaj nawlogh luQaw'ta' je=
.</p></blockquote>
<p>tu' je vajar. maj.</p>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<p>jatlh vajar, =ABqIQchoHmeH vIponbe'. qIQrup chaH. 'eb vInob neH.=
=BB<br><br>jatlh qImyal, =ABQupwI'pu'vaD 'eb Danobmo' loQ b=
Inoy. pIj nInaD nItoy'pu'bogh beqpu'.=BB<br><br>noy'a' =
vajar? machmo' Dugh 'ej pIj Dalmo' Qu'meyDaj, reH vajar toy=
' beqpu' Qup, beqpu''e' lajHa'ta'bogh latlhpu&#=
39; je. ghojmoHtaH vajar. ghojmoH 'e' tIv 'ej ghojwI'pu'=
;Daj SaHqu'.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>maj. ja' vIttlhegh lI' =ABghojwI'pu'lI' tISaH=BB.</p=
>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<p>pIj Dujmey potlh toy'choH, vajar toy'pu'DI'. chaHmo'=
Hem vajar. jatlh =ABvIvuvmo' 'ej vIghongbe'mo' batlh mutoy=
'.=BB </p></blockquote>
<p>vuvbe' qImyal 'ej ghong, 'e' chuplaw' vajar.</p>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<p>mIwmeyDaj ghojwI'pu'Daj je DelmeH vajar yu'choH qImyal. pegh=
mey bIHbe'mo' jatlhqang vajar. 'op mIwmeyDaj Ho' qImyal. &#=
39;oy'taH vajar volchaHDu' 'ach ghu'vam SIQlaHbej.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>wej qImyal Dup vIyaj. peghDaj ghojpu' Qa'bar 'e' Sovbe&#=
39;'a'?</p>
<p>-- ghunchu'wI'</p>
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