[93563] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Fwd: Time and Type 7 verb suffixes
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (David Trimboli)
Thu Jun 7 12:41:47 2012
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 12:41:31 -0400
From: David Trimboli <david@trimboli.name>
To: tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
In-Reply-To: <CABDLMbVU7H6WD4iR7as1=-nAMb3b1kCqMwoGiZN6BbsDtPQTcw@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
On 6/7/2012 11:43 AM, Andr=E9 M=FCller wrote:
> I found two sentences of that kind, but I don't have the source in my lis=
t:
>
> vagh SanID ben buDbe' wamwI'pu'. ngugh Ho'Du'chaj lo' chaH, 'ach DaH
> tajmey lo'.
> =AB5,000 years ago, hunters were not lazy. Then (at that time) they used
> their teeth, but now they use knives.=BB
>
> Both sentences above refer to a time in the past and do not use any type
> 7 suffixe.
The first sentence describes a condition ("not lazy"), so no aspect =
applies. Both parts of the second sentence describe habits, so they also =
don't need aspect suffixes. There are no completed events being described.
> But we have for instance:
>
> loSmaH ben jIboghpu'.
> =ABI am 40 years old.=BB
This is the quintissential example of perfective aspect. When this =
sentence first appeared, and I thought -pu' meant "finished prior to the =
time context," I hated this sentence, because it only made sense if you =
twisted logic to say "it's fifty days after my birthday of this year, so =
exactly 40 years ago it was fifty days after the date of my birth, and =
my being born was already done by then."
With a perfective interpretation, the sentence makes sense without =
mental gymnastics: "40 years ago, my being born occurred and was done."
> Aspect, tense and the interaction of the two (as in English) are really
> damn complex. I read the famous book on Tense and Aspect by Bernard
> Comrie, but still I feel always unsure about them. I'm waiting for a
> consense in this discussion. ;)
Qochlu' net mevba'Qo'...
-- =
SuStel
http://www.trimboli.name/
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