[93544] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] 125,000
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Wed Jun 6 12:12:51 2012
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2012 10:12:31 -0600
To: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>, De'vID jonpIn <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>,
tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
From: Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
In-Reply-To: <F52986192E9FE346B0B7EF3D6F98E87711C2FD50@EXDB3.ug.kth.se>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
The Chinese system is a useful and productive =
one, but the pattern that we see in Klingon from =
ten to a million is that there is a new word for =
every factor of ten, just as American English has =
a new word for every factor of a thousand.
I like your attention-span-saving suggestion.
- Robyn
At 10:02 '?????' 6/6/2012, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:
>I've always just assumed that Klingon numbers =
>work in such a way that it'd be wa'bIp cha'netlh =
>vaghSaD, but I see now that that's not strictly =
>stated in TKD. I would assumed, however, that =
>it's sort of like the system commonly used in =
>modern-day China: You have names for 0-9, and =
>then words for 10, 100, 1 000 and - unlike in =
>English - 10 000 ("myriad"). Then, instead of =
>saying "one hundred thousands", you say "ten =
>myriads". Likewise, 1 000 000 is "100 myriads", =
>and 10 000 000 becomes "1 000 myriads". Then, =
>you have the next step: A y=A8=AC, which is ten =
>thousand squared, or 100 million. To say "one =
>billion", you say "10 y=A8=AC", and ten billion is =
>"100 y=A8=AC", and so forth up to the zh=A8=A4o, which =
>is 10 000 to the third power, or a myriad myriad =
>myriads. Next is j=A8=A9ng (10^16), g=A8=A1i (10^20), =
>z=A8=AB (10^24) and so forth. =
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_numerals#Large_numbers =
>In other words, while most of us are used to a =
>convention which needs a new name for every =
>factor 1 000 (or, by the long count, 1 000 000), =
>most Chinese people [as I understand it] would =
>be used to one which takes a new step for every =
>factor 10 000. Therefore, I'd guess that the =
>next [commonly used but unknown to us] Klingon =
>number-forming element would be one for a 10^2; =
>the number which is 1 greater than =
>999,999,999,999 (which, similar to you, I think =
>would probably be called <HutbIp Hutnetlh HutSaD =
>Hutvatlh HutmaH Hut'uy' HutbIp Hutnetlh HutSaD =
>Hutvatlh HutmaH Hut>)*. Perhaps when explaining =
>such big numbers to laymen, Klingon =
>mathematicians refer to this element as =
><wa''uy''uy'>. =
>----------------------------------------- =
>WARNING: Going off on a tangent. =
>----------------------------------------- =
>*Another alternative, which requires more =
>syllables but may not be as demanding on your =
>attention span, is <HutbIp'uy' Hutnetlh'uy' =
>HutSaD'uy'...>. That way, you don't have to wait =
>twelve syllables before you find out what order =
>of magnitude you're dealing with; it'll always =
>be right there in the third. One could of course =
>imagine all sort of systems. For example, one =
>that squares upwards after 'uy': If the next =
>number-forming elements is called X, and 1X =3D =
>1'uy''uy' =3D 10^12, then the next one, Y, would =
>be 1'uy'X (10^18), but 1XX (10^24), and Z would =
>be 10^48. So, if you wanted to say 24*10^42 (24 =
>tredecillion), you'd have to say cha'maH'uy'XY =
>loS'uy'XY. Dunno if that'd be practical, but you =
>never know with alien species :P =
>________________________________________ From: =
>Qov [robyn@flyingstart.ca] Sent: Wednesday, June =
>06, 2012 17:17 To: De'vID jonpIn; tlhIngan-Hol =
>Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] 125,000 I see that =
>TKD says "some of the number forming elements =
>for higher numbers are ..." and stops at 'uy'. =
>Clearly there are more we don't know. That =
>suggests to me that there is one for each place =
>up as high as Klingons need to count before =
>whatever their scientifix notation is cuts in. =
>But just as people who want to be clear when =
>talking to an international audience avoid words =
>like billion and say "a thousand million" or "a =
>mllion million," I imagine 423,198,765,432 =
>could be understood as loSbIp cha'netlh wejSaD =
>wa'vatlh HutmaH chorgh'uy' Soch bIp javnetlh =
>vaghSaD loSmaH wejmaH cha'. - Qov At 01:56 =
>'?????' 6/6/2012, De'vID jonpIn =
>wrote: >Qov: > >>> qepHomwIjDaq jatlh ghojwI', =
>"chay' <125,000> jIjatlh?" > >*{wa' chorghvI' =
>'uy'} > >No, not really, but I wish *{-vI'} =
>generalised in this way (from =
>{vatlhvI'}). > >qurgh: > >> wa'bIp cha'netlh =
>vaghSaD > >Qov: > > That makes sense. Is that =
>canonical, qurgh? > >Why else would we have =
>{bIp} and =
>{netlh}? > >-- >De'vID >_________________________ =
>______________________ >Tlhingan-hol mailing =
>list >Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org >http =
>://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol =
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