[93534] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] muD Duj SIrgh'a'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmIt tI'wI'nuv)
Tue Jun 5 17:09:13 2012
From: lojmIt tI'wI'nuv <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 17:08:55 -0400
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120605132524.05380a60@flyingstart.ca>
To: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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On Jun 5, 2012, at 3:36 PM, Robyn Stewart wrote:
> At 13:01 '?????' 6/5/2012, you wrote:
>=20
>> pItlh
>> lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
>=20
> qatlh reH QIn DataghDI' pItlh bIjatlh? loQ Dochlaw'.
>=20
bItlhaQ. bong jIQIppu'. ghaytan jIQIpqa'. If you can't make mistakes, =
you can't make anything.
>> On Jun 5, 2012, at 1:10 AM, Robyn Stewart wrote:
> ...
>> pa' vay'vaD wa' le'bogh muDDuj mach noblu'. SochmaH cha' ben =
muDDujvam chenmoHlu'.
>>=20
>> Dujvam vIneH.
>=20
> neHmo' Hoch, wagh. chaq rurwI' DachenmoHlaH.
muDDuj vIchenchoHlaHmoHchugh, rurbe'bej Dujvam. Dujvam vISuqchugh, =
puvmeH jIHaD 'ej 'orwI' chaw' vISuq. loQ jIngongmeH vIlo', muDDuj pImqu' =
vIchenmoHmeH ghIq J-wej vIngev. chaq RV wa'maH cha' vISuq pagh latlh =
vI'ogh. muDDuj vI'oghbogh vInajtaH.
It's really hard to describe. Imagine a Blackbird (the now-obsolete, =
Mach 3 reconnaissance plane) with chines on the fuselage. Remove the =
engines and extend the wings just a tad. Bend the chines downward (front =
to back) along a 15 degree arc of a cycloid to make the fuselage act as =
an airfoil. The main landing gear retract into this fuselage farther =
back than one would typically expect. Where you would expect a nose =
wheel, put a strut connecting a canard to the fuselage with a nose wheel =
that sticks below the canard's center. The nose wheel would take a =
significant portion of the weight of the aircraft, so it would have to =
be more substantial than typical examples in its weight class and it =
would have to be steerable. Sweep the canard's wingtips back and up =
until they join with the center (both front/back and vertical center) =
wing tip and have that sweep continue up, then in and back to form a =
rear/high wing mounted on a vertical stabilizer. Put a nacelle at the =
center of this rear/high wing and put an engine in it with a pusher =
prop. The rear wing is essentially an oversized, reverse-swept =
horizontal stabilizer in appearance, though it is designed for lift, not =
for holding the tail down.
Pitch stability comes from making the canard have less surface area, but =
a higher angle of attack than the rear wing, so that it is more reactive =
to changes in air speed (proportionately more lift at higher speeds and =
less lift at lower speeds). It also stalls first when the aircraft is at =
high angle of attack. The middle wing is also middle in terms of surface =
area and angle of attack. The larger, flatter rear wing provides the =
tail feathers of the arrow in case of a stall, so that it recovers nose =
down, as it should.
The rudders are actually air brakes along those diagonal sweeps =
connecting the three wings. They control yaw by creating drag on the =
wingtips, and they can be deployed together to act as a spoiler for =
landing. There are also front/rear rudders so that the pilot can control =
sliding sideways without yawing or rolling, in order to counteract =
crosswinds more calmly. It's a second joystick. I've worked out the =
controls... though it could also be done with split rudder pedals. Press =
both right pedals to yaw right. Press the right half of each pair to =
slide right. Press both pedals to increase drag while landing.
Front and rear elevators act inverse for pitch, together for =
flaps/spoilers. Mid wing has full-length flapperons.
The connected wingtips give structural strength to the triplane without =
the usual drag of struts and cables, and the joined wingtips would =
nearly eliminate wingtip vortexes and their associated drag. It would =
fly fast and clean, which is why it needs spoilers to land. The wings =
would, like any triplane, be stubby, since there would be LOTS of =
surface area, even with short wings, and since the airframe supports =
itself and has lift front, middle and rear, it would be far less =
vulnerable to CG issues. Stall recovery does not rely on CG at all. That =
big, rear wing does not want to lead the fuselage backwards, and at any =
other angle, it wants to be at the back of the motion; the last thing to =
fall. Tumble it anywhere, it comes out nose down, then the canard pulls =
up as soon as it has enough air speed. The pilot could die and this =
aircraft would land bottom side down (albeit in the woods or the ocean). =
(All three wings have dihedral, though it is most pronounced in the =
canard.)
It would be a beautiful object, if it could exist and would give the =
pilot levels of control for landing and taking off that don't currently =
exist by conventional designs. But it's a poor man's dream, and most =
likely will remain so.
And so long as I don't build it, it works and it doesn't cost money, =
except for an occasional sketchpad and some negligible disk space.
And it's one looooong way from being a C3 Cub.
>> Dujvam chovnatlh Delbogh paqmey vIlaDta'. J-wej *qab* 'oH. QIt puv. =
nIn yap Hutlhmo' Hop ghoSlaHbe'.
>>=20
>> wa' 'orwI' wa' raQpo' qenglaH Dujvam. tlhop quSDaq ba' wa'. 'emDaq =
ba'nIS latlh. tlhopDaq 'ughmo' QuQ nIn je, nIteb puvchugh 'orwI', 'emDaq =
ba'nIS.
>>=20
>> yav Hotmo' tlhuQ, javDaq lengtaHvIS Dujvam, tlhopDaq leghlaHbe' =
'orwI', vaj DopDaq bejnIStaH 'ej tlhe'nIStaH. (DernIStaH.) SaqtaHvIS =
Qob. SaqHa'taHvIS Qob.
>>=20
>> bISaqtaHvIS, HeDon boHutlhchugh SuS SoH je, Qobqu' ghu'. tlhopDaq =
rutlh'a'mey Sum law', muD Duj tlham botlh Sum puS. SaqmeH HeDaq Duj =
ghIch DaQeqchugh, DopDaq DulengmoH SuS. ghor HotDI' rutlh'a'mey, DopDaq =
muDDuj luH rutlh'a'mey. DopDaq QeqchoH muDDuj. ronqu' muDDuj. Qaw''egh =
muDDuj. meQ. Hegh 'orwI'. Do'Ha'.
>>=20
>> vaj HeDon DaghoStaHmeH DaronnIS, 'ach HeDonDaq DaQeqmeH jaS DaDernIS. =
"Intentionally uncoordinated flight" 'oH. poSDaq DarontaHvIS, nIHDaq =
DaDertaH pagh nIHDaq DarontaHvIS, poSDaq DaDernIS.
>=20
> SaqtaHvIS, SuS Donbe'chugh DujwIj mIwvetlh vIlo'nIS je jIH 'ach =
'ughmo' DujwIj SIghqu'be' HochHom SuS Do, 'ej 'etDaq rutlh wejDich =
tu'lu'mo', pupbe'chugh qaSbe' lot.
ghIch rutlh ghajmo', tlhopDaq muDDuj tlham botlh Sum law' rutlh'a'mey =
Sum puS. ghor HotDI' rutlh'a'mey, tlhopDaq QeqmeH ghIch luH rutlhmey. =
Qob nup.=20
Tail draggers ground loop, unless you are perfectly careful every time. =
Tricycles generally don't, unless you do something remarkably stupid. =
Tricycle pilots can check their email once the wheels touch down. Tail =
draggers fly until the plane stops and the wind dies down, and they keep =
ready to jump back in the seat, grab the stick and stomp the rudders =
until the wheels are chocked and the wings are tied down (or until the =
hanger doors are closed). Every wind grabs the tail.
On the ground, tail draggers live in conflict between the motion of the =
Earth and the motion of the air. Tricycles spend a fraction of a second =
transitioning, and then they are creatures of the Earth and the air is =
just air.
Tail draggers are still in the air while the wheels are on the ground.
That's why you need that special note on your license to fly one. It =
says, "I fly fearlessly, but I land on adrenalin."
>> 'ach Dujvam vIneHchu'. muD Duj vIje'meH Huch yap vIHutlh. 'ach =
munobchugh.
>>=20
>> jIQapchugh, Light Sport Aircraft chaw' le' vIHevmeH vIghojlu'moH 'ej =
jIDIlnISbe'.
>=20
> yIchaw' ghIq J-wej ghajbogh qanwI' yISam. puv qanwI' 'e' tuchDI' Qel =
pIj qoch poQ 'orwI' qan. mubmo' chaw'lIj, DatlhejtaHvIS puvlaH qanwI'. =
'ej Duvoqchugh DapuvlaH je.
be'nal vIghaj. vaj poH vIHutlh.
J-wej vISuqchugh, jIghIQtaHvIS jIHaDlaH 'ej nom chaw' vISuqlaH. poH =
vIHutlhbogh vIpoQbe'.
>=20
> ...
> - Qov=20
DaH, pItlh.
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv=
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><div>On Jun 5, 2012, at 3:36 PM, Robyn Stewart wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>At =
13:01 '?????' 6/5/2012, you wrote:<br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">pItlh<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">lojmIt =
tI'wI'nuv<br></blockquote><br>qatlh reH QIn DataghDI' pItlh bIjatlh? =
loQ =
Dochlaw'.<br><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>bItlhaQ. bong =
jIQIppu'. ghaytan jIQIpqa'. If you can't make mistakes, you can't make =
anything.</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">On Jun 5, 2012, at 1:10 AM, Robyn Stewart =
wrote:<br></blockquote><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#00721e">...<br></font><blockquote type=3D"cite">pa' vay'vaD =
wa' le'bogh muDDuj mach noblu'. SochmaH cha' ben muDDujvam =
chenmoHlu'.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Dujvam =
vIneH.<br></blockquote><br>neHmo' Hoch, wagh. chaq rurwI' =
DachenmoHlaH.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>muDDuj =
vIchenchoHlaHmoHchugh, rurbe'bej Dujvam. Dujvam vISuqchugh, puvmeH jIHaD =
'ej 'orwI' chaw' vISuq. loQ jIngongmeH vIlo', muDDuj pImqu' vIchenmoHmeH =
ghIq J-wej vIngev. chaq RV wa'maH cha' vISuq pagh latlh vI'ogh. muDDuj =
vI'oghbogh vInajtaH.</div><div><br></div><div>It's really hard to =
describe. Imagine a Blackbird (the now-obsolete, Mach 3 reconnaissance =
plane) with chines on the fuselage. Remove the engines and extend the =
wings just a tad. Bend the chines downward (front to back) along a 15 =
degree arc of a cycloid to make the fuselage act as an airfoil. The main =
landing gear retract into this fuselage farther back than one would =
typically expect. Where you would expect a nose wheel, put a strut =
connecting a canard to the fuselage with a nose wheel that sticks below =
the canard's center. The nose wheel would take a significant portion of =
the weight of the aircraft, so it would have to be more substantial than =
typical examples in its weight class and it would have to be steerable. =
Sweep the canard's wingtips back and up until they join with the center =
(both front/back and vertical center) wing tip and have that sweep =
continue up, then in and back to form a rear/high wing mounted on a =
vertical stabilizer. Put a nacelle at the center of this rear/high wing =
and put an engine in it with a pusher prop. The rear wing is essentially =
an oversized, reverse-swept horizontal stabilizer in appearance, though =
it is designed for lift, not for holding the tail =
down.</div><div><br></div><div>Pitch stability comes from making the =
canard have less surface area, but a higher angle of attack than the =
rear wing, so that it is more reactive to changes in air speed =
(proportionately more lift at higher speeds and less lift at lower =
speeds). It also stalls first when the aircraft is at high angle of =
attack. The middle wing is also middle in terms of surface area and =
angle of attack. The larger, flatter rear wing provides the tail =
feathers of the arrow in case of a stall, so that it recovers nose down, =
as it should.</div><div><br></div><div>The rudders are actually air =
brakes along those diagonal sweeps connecting the three wings. They =
control yaw by creating drag on the wingtips, and they can be deployed =
together to act as a spoiler for landing. There are also front/rear =
rudders so that the pilot can control sliding sideways without yawing or =
rolling, in order to counteract crosswinds more calmly. It's a second =
joystick. I've worked out the controls... though it could also be done =
with split rudder pedals. Press both right pedals to yaw right. Press =
the right half of each pair to slide right. Press both pedals to =
increase drag while landing.</div><div><br></div><div>Front and rear =
elevators act inverse for pitch, together for flaps/spoilers. Mid wing =
has full-length flapperons.</div><div><br></div><div>The connected =
wingtips give structural strength to the triplane without the usual drag =
of struts and cables, and the joined wingtips would nearly eliminate =
wingtip vortexes and their associated drag. It would fly fast and clean, =
which is why it needs spoilers to land. The wings would, like any =
triplane, be stubby, since there would be LOTS of surface area, even =
with short wings, and since the airframe supports itself and has lift =
front, middle and rear, it would be far less vulnerable to CG issues. =
Stall recovery does not rely on CG at all. That big, rear wing does not =
want to lead the fuselage backwards, and at any other angle, it wants to =
be at the back of the motion; the last thing to fall. Tumble it =
anywhere, it comes out nose down, then the canard pulls up as soon as it =
has enough air speed. The pilot could die and this aircraft would land =
bottom side down (albeit in the woods or the ocean). (All three wings =
have dihedral, though it is most pronounced in the =
canard.)</div><div><br></div><div>It would be a beautiful object, if it =
could exist and would give the pilot levels of control for landing and =
taking off that don't currently exist by conventional designs. But it's =
a poor man's dream, and most likely will remain =
so.</div><div><br></div><div>And so long as I don't build it, it works =
and it doesn't cost money, except for an occasional sketchpad and some =
negligible disk space.</div><div><br></div><div>And it's one looooong =
way from being a C3 Cub.</div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div><blockquote type=3D"cite">Dujvam chovnatlh Delbogh =
paqmey vIlaDta'. J-wej *qab* 'oH. QIt puv. nIn yap Hutlhmo' Hop =
ghoSlaHbe'.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">wa' 'orwI' wa' =
raQpo' qenglaH Dujvam. tlhop quSDaq ba' wa'. 'emDaq ba'nIS latlh. =
tlhopDaq 'ughmo' QuQ nIn je, nIteb puvchugh 'orwI', 'emDaq =
ba'nIS.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">yav Hotmo' =
tlhuQ, javDaq lengtaHvIS Dujvam, tlhopDaq leghlaHbe' 'orwI', vaj DopDaq =
bejnIStaH 'ej tlhe'nIStaH. (DernIStaH.) SaqtaHvIS Qob. SaqHa'taHvIS =
Qob.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">bISaqtaHvIS, =
HeDon boHutlhchugh SuS SoH je, Qobqu' ghu'. tlhopDaq rutlh'a'mey Sum =
law', muD Duj tlham botlh Sum puS. SaqmeH HeDaq Duj ghIch DaQeqchugh, =
DopDaq DulengmoH SuS. ghor HotDI' rutlh'a'mey, DopDaq muDDuj luH =
rutlh'a'mey. DopDaq QeqchoH muDDuj. ronqu' muDDuj. Qaw''egh muDDuj. meQ. =
Hegh 'orwI'. Do'Ha'.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">vaj HeDon =
DaghoStaHmeH DaronnIS, 'ach HeDonDaq DaQeqmeH jaS DaDernIS. =
"Intentionally uncoordinated flight" 'oH. poSDaq DarontaHvIS, nIHDaq =
DaDertaH pagh nIHDaq DarontaHvIS, poSDaq =
DaDernIS.<br></blockquote><br>SaqtaHvIS, SuS Donbe'chugh DujwIj mIwvetlh =
vIlo'nIS je jIH 'ach 'ughmo' DujwIj SIghqu'be' HochHom SuS Do, 'ej =
'etDaq rutlh wejDich tu'lu'mo', pupbe'chugh qaSbe' =
lot.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>ghIch rutlh ghajmo', =
tlhopDaq muDDuj tlham botlh Sum law' rutlh'a'mey Sum puS. ghor HotDI' =
rutlh'a'mey, tlhopDaq QeqmeH ghIch luH rutlhmey. Qob =
nup. </div><div><br></div><div>Tail draggers ground loop, unless =
you are perfectly careful every time. Tricycles generally don't, unless =
you do something remarkably stupid. Tricycle pilots can check their =
email once the wheels touch down. Tail draggers fly until the plane =
stops and the wind dies down, and they keep ready to jump back in the =
seat, grab the stick and stomp the rudders until the wheels are chocked =
and the wings are tied down (or until the hanger doors are closed). =
Every wind grabs the tail.</div><div><br></div><div>On the ground, tail =
draggers live in conflict between the motion of the Earth and the motion =
of the air. Tricycles spend a fraction of a second transitioning, and =
then they are creatures of the Earth and the air is just =
air.</div><div><br></div><div>Tail draggers are still in the air while =
the wheels are on the ground.</div><div><br></div><div>That's why you =
need that special note on your license to fly one. It says, "I fly =
fearlessly, but I land on adrenalin."</div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div><blockquote type=3D"cite">'ach Dujvam vIneHchu'. muD =
Duj vIje'meH Huch yap vIHutlh. 'ach =
munobchugh.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">jIQapchugh, =
Light Sport Aircraft chaw' le' vIHevmeH vIghojlu'moH 'ej =
jIDIlnISbe'.<br></blockquote><br>yIchaw' ghIq J-wej ghajbogh qanwI' =
yISam. puv qanwI' 'e' tuchDI' Qel pIj qoch poQ 'orwI' qan. mubmo' =
chaw'lIj, DatlhejtaHvIS puvlaH qanwI'. 'ej Duvoqchugh DapuvlaH =
je.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>be'nal vIghaj. vaj poH =
vIHutlh.</div><div><br></div><div>J-wej vISuqchugh, jIghIQtaHvIS =
jIHaDlaH 'ej nom chaw' vISuqlaH. poH vIHutlhbogh =
vIpoQbe'.</div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#000000"><br></font></div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#000000">...<br></font></div></blockquote><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>- Qov <br></div></blockquote></div><br><div>DaH, =
pItlh.</div><div><br></div><div>lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div></body></html>=
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