[93416] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: pav
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmIt tI'wI'nuv)
Tue May 29 11:16:27 2012
From: lojmIt tI'wI'nuv <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:15:59 -0400
In-Reply-To: <00ADE15F-988A-4CF6-912A-3B5F2A7658DA@flyingstart.ca>
To: tlhIngan-Hol discussion forum <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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Also, keep in mind that all of Vixis's lines were shot before Okrand was =
hired as a consultant for ST3, and so they were all spoken in English =
and then lip-synched at a later date with the Klingon. Kruge's lines =
were filmed after Okrand was hired, and so were filmed while he was =
speaking Klingon.
This is why a lot of Vixis's lines involve odd wording, like {rIntaH}, =
which has never been used by anybody except Vixis (because it gave her =
Klingon voice something to say while her English lips were moving).
I agree that in this sentence {potlh} has to be a noun. Quite likely, =
Okrand had it in the vocabulary as a verb and in order to get her lips =
fitting the syllables, decided to make it a noun, too.
For anyone who has never done this before, rent or purchase ST3 and =
watch Vixis with the volume turned down. She's saying in English exactly =
what the subtitles say she's saying in Klingon. Okrand earned whatever =
he made on that scene many times over. It's clearly the single most =
challenging thing he did as a translator.
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
On May 29, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Robyn Stewart wrote:
> It has to be a noun-noun and I like the distinction between =
designation and fact.=20
>=20
> Indeed: chaq De' potlh muchbe' potlh De'. Who hasn't received an email =
tagged 'priority' that wasn't important at all? =20
>=20
> - Qov
>=20
> Sent from a mobile device through a temporary connection.=20
>=20
> On 2012-05-29, at 7:33, Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se> wrote:
>=20
>> Star Trek V:
>>=20
>> Vixis: HoD, yo' SeHyaH nIvvo' potlh De' wIHevtaH (?)
>> (Captain, new data, hostages on Nimbus III.) [sic]
>> {Captain, we are receiving a priority message from Operations =
Command.}
>> [Clearly, this is NOT the line she is saying!]}
>>=20
>> Source: http://www.kli.org/tlhIngan-Hol/2008/October/msg00037.html
>>=20
>> It may be that this is an error. However, it may also be that this is =
not really a noun-verb construction meaning "important information", but =
rather a noun-noun construction meaning "information pertaining to =
something important". It seems to me that this may be a way of =
distinguishing between priority messages (an official designation for a =
specific concept) as opposed to messages which are prioritized (a more =
subjective description).
>>=20
>> Compare with <pegh vIttlhegh>: It's a proverb for secrets, not a =
secret proverb (vIttlhegh pegh).
>>=20
>> Also compare with ngoqDe' =3D "encoded message" (or is it *<ngoq =
De'>?)
>>=20
>> [Vixis: DIvI' Se' wI'IjtaHvIS DaH ngoqDe' wIHevta'.
>> We've just received an encoded message on the Federation frequency.]
>> Vixis: nImbuS wejDaq 'ejDo' 'entepray' ngeHlu'pu'
>> (The Starship Enterprise has been dispatched to Nimbus III.)
>> Klaa: 'entepray''a'. qIrq Duj 'oH
>> (Enterprise? That's Kirk's ship!)
>>=20
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Philip Newton [philip.newton@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 16:20
>> To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: pav
>>=20
>> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 3:28 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> =
wrote:
>>> potlh De' priority message
>>=20
>> That doesn't seem like a 1:1 translation... unless it was {De' =
potlh}?
>>=20
>> Though I can imagine a scenario where the Klingon has {potlh De'} and
>> the English translation has "priority message"... can you provide the
>> source for this phrase, perhaps?
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>> Philip
>> --
>> Philip Newton <philip.newton@gmail.com>
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
>> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
>> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div>Also, keep in mind that all of Vixis's lines were shot before =
Okrand was hired as a consultant for ST3, and so they were all spoken in =
English and then lip-synched at a later date with the Klingon. Kruge's =
lines were filmed after Okrand was hired, and so were filmed while he =
was speaking Klingon.</div><div><br></div><div>This is why a lot of =
Vixis's lines involve odd wording, like {rIntaH}, which has never been =
used by anybody except Vixis (because it gave her Klingon voice =
something to say while her English lips were =
moving).</div><div><br></div><div>I agree that in this sentence {potlh} =
has to be a noun. Quite likely, Okrand had it in the vocabulary as a =
verb and in order to get her lips fitting the syllables, decided to make =
it a noun, too.</div><div><br></div><div>For anyone who has never done =
this before, rent or purchase ST3 and watch Vixis with the volume turned =
down. She's saying in English exactly what the subtitles say she's =
saying in Klingon. Okrand earned whatever he made on that scene many =
times over. It's clearly the single most challenging thing he did as a =
translator.</div><div><br></div><div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; =
"><div>pItlh</div><div>lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div><br></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On May 29, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Robyn Stewart =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>It has to be a noun-noun and I like the distinction =
between designation and fact. <br><br>Indeed: chaq De' potlh muchbe' =
potlh De'. Who hasn't received an email tagged 'priority' that wasn't =
important at all? <br><br>- Qov<br><br>Sent from a mobile device =
through a temporary connection. <br><br>On 2012-05-29, at 7:33, Felix =
Malmenbeck <<a href=3D"mailto:felixm@kth.se">felixm@kth.se</a>> =
wrote:<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">Star Trek =
V:<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Vixis: HoD, yo' SeHyaH nIvvo' potlh De' wIHevtaH =
&n=
bsp; (?)<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">(Captain, new data, hostages on Nimbus III.) =
&n=
bsp;[sic]<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">{Captain, we are =
receiving a priority message from Operations =
Command.}<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">[Clearly, this is =
NOT the line she is saying!]}<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Source: <a =
href=3D"http://www.kli.org/tlhIngan-Hol/2008/October/msg00037.html">http:/=
/www.kli.org/tlhIngan-Hol/2008/October/msg00037.html</a><br></blockquote><=
blockquote type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">It =
may be that this is an error. However, it may also be that this is not =
really a noun-verb construction meaning "important information", but =
rather a noun-noun construction meaning "information pertaining to =
something important". It seems to me that this may be a way of =
distinguishing between priority messages (an official designation for a =
specific concept) as opposed to messages which are prioritized (a more =
subjective description).<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Compare with =
<pegh vIttlhegh>: It's a proverb for secrets, not a secret proverb =
(vIttlhegh pegh).<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Also compare =
with ngoqDe' =3D "encoded message" (or is it *<ngoq =
De'>?)<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">[Vixis: DIvI' =
Se' wI'IjtaHvIS DaH ngoqDe' wIHevta'.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">We've just received an encoded message on the Federation =
frequency.]<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Vixis: =
nImbuS wejDaq 'ejDo' 'entepray' =
ngeHlu'pu'<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">(The Starship =
Enterprise has been dispatched to Nimbus =
III.)<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Klaa: =
'entepray''a'. qIrq Duj 'oH<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">(Enterprise? That's Kirk's =
ship!)<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">________________________________________<br></blockquote><bl=
ockquote type=3D"cite">From: Philip Newton [<a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.newton@gmail.com">philip.newton@gmail.com</a>]<br></=
blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 =
16:20<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org">tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br></blockqu=
ote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word =
of the Day: pav<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Tue, May 29, =
2012 at 3:28 PM, Steven Boozer <<a =
href=3D"mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu">sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>> =
wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">potlh De' =
priority =
message<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">That doesn't =
seem like a 1:1 translation... unless it was {De' =
potlh}?<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Though I can =
imagine a scenario where the Klingon has {potlh De'} =
and<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">the English translation =
has "priority message"... can you provide =
the<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">source for this phrase, =
perhaps?<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Cheers,<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Philip<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">--<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Philip Newton =
<<a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.newton@gmail.com">philip.newton@gmail.com</a>><br=
></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockqu=
ote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Tlhingan-hol mailing =
list<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org">Tlhingan-hol@stodi.d=
igitalkingdom.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
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p://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br></blockq=
uote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockqu=
ote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Tlhingan-hol mailing =
list<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org">Tlhingan-hol@stodi.d=
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uote><br>_______________________________________________<br>Tlhingan-hol =
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