[93206] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] nuq bop bom: 'ay' wa'vatlh SochmaH
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmIt tI'wI'nuv)
Thu May 10 10:45:15 2012
From: lojmIt tI'wI'nuv <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 10:44:51 -0400
In-Reply-To: <AE85C6BF-7230-46F6-87A2-67EC41199C72@flyingstart.ca>
To: tlhIngan-Hol discussion forum <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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But language also has cultural factors. English still sees a corpse as a =
person. Klingon sees a corpse as an ugly, messy thing. It doesn't matter =
if, before death, the person was highly valued and respected. The corpse =
is garbage.
Note that nobody cares about the gravesite of Kahless. There are no =
Klingon embalmers. One howl pretty much covers funeral services.
So, a Klingon corpse doesn't sit or lie. It has a location and perhaps a =
posture, if you'd call it that. It's dead. It's a thing; a thing =
associated with rot and released bodily fluids and solids. It won't =
watch your back in battle. It won't love you or hate you. It's useless, =
unless you are really, really hungry and have no better choices. Top of =
the food chain collects a lot of toxins. Not exactly health food.
Of course, in a pinch, properly prepared, many parts could be used as a =
weapon. But that can be said for just about anything, so the value here =
is limited.
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
On May 9, 2012, at 11:43 PM, Robyn Stewart wrote:
> This is influence from Russian, which also lacks the verb "to be" in =
the present tense and uses the verbs sit/stand/hang/lie where English =
would just use to be. I thought I'd try it, but as it strikes you both =
as wrong, I guess it doesn't work. I'm surprised. One can make a corpse =
sit or lie in English, too.=20
>=20
> -Qov
>=20
> Sent from a mobile device through a temporary connection.=20
>=20
> On 2012-05-09, at 13:52, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
>=20
>> Qov:
>>>> chegh Hota'ro' ghutar je. yIQchu'. yIttaHvIS naQvo' HuS gheDchaj.
>>>> chemvaH rur. ror 'ej pIv veD. "majQa'!" jatlh vajar. ghIq jatlh,
>>>> "maja'chuqnIS." beb HeH bIngDaq gheD luQotmoH.
>>=20
>> ghunchu'wI':
>>> Unless the animal is still alive and they're letting it get some =
rest,
>>> I believe this stretches the meaning of {Qot} past reasonable =
limits.
>>> The "recline" meaning gives me the impression that it shouldn't =
apply
>>> to something inanimate.=20
>>=20
>> Agreed. FYI {Qot} "lie, recline" in canon:
>>=20
>> DungDaq legh 'ej QotnIStaH romuluSngan be'pu'=20
>> Romulan women belong on their backs! (ST5 notes)
>>=20
>> QongDaqDaq Qotbe' tlhInganpu'=20
>> Klingons do not lie in bed. (TKW)
>>=20
>> QotDI' gheD tlhejbe' wamwI'=20
>> The hunter does not lie down with the prey. (TKW)
>>=20
>>> I consider the verb to be almost the opposite of {Hu'}.
>>=20
>> or the opposite of {Qam} "stand":
>>=20
>> QamvIS Hegh qaq law' torvIS yIn qaq puS=20
>> Better to die on our feet than live on our knees. (ST6 & TKW)
>>=20
>> yIyong 'ej pa' yIQam=20
>> Get in and stand there. (CK)
>>=20
>> Qam=20
>> Stand! (PK)
>>=20
>> poSDaq nIHDaq je QamtaHvIS SuvwI'pu', chaH jojDaq yItnIS lopwI'=20
>> The initiate must pass through a gauntlet of warriors. (S9)
>>=20
>> {Hu'} "get up" in canon is unhelpful:
>>=20
>> yIHu'
>> [Get up! (untranslated)] (ST3 & ST6)
>>=20
>>=20
>> --
>> Voragh
>> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
>> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">But =
language also has cultural factors. English still sees a corpse as a =
person. Klingon sees a corpse as an ugly, messy thing. It doesn't matter =
if, before death, the person was highly valued and respected. The corpse =
is garbage.<div><br></div><div>Note that nobody cares about the =
gravesite of Kahless. There are no Klingon embalmers. One howl pretty =
much covers funeral services.</div><div><br></div><div>So, a Klingon =
corpse doesn't sit or lie. It has a location and perhaps a posture, if =
you'd call it that. It's dead. It's a thing; a thing associated with rot =
and released bodily fluids and solids. It won't watch your back in =
battle. It won't love you or hate you. It's useless, unless you are =
really, really hungry and have no better choices. Top of the food chain =
collects a lot of toxins. Not exactly health =
food.</div><div><br></div><div>Of course, in a pinch, properly prepared, =
many parts could be used as a weapon. But that can be said for just =
about anything, so the value here is limited.<br><div><br><div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; =
"><div>pItlh</div><div>lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div><br></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On May 9, 2012, at 11:43 PM, Robyn Stewart wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>This =
is influence from Russian, which also lacks the verb "to be" in the =
present tense and uses the verbs sit/stand/hang/lie where English would =
just use to be. I thought I'd try it, but as it strikes you both as =
wrong, I guess it doesn't work. I'm surprised. One can make a corpse sit =
or lie in English, too. <br><br>-Qov<br><br>Sent from a mobile device =
through a temporary connection. <br><br>On 2012-05-09, at 13:52, Steven =
Boozer <<a =
href=3D"mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu">sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>> =
wrote:<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">Qov:<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">chegh =
Hota'ro' ghutar je. yIQchu'. yIttaHvIS naQvo' HuS =
gheDchaj.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">chemvaH =
rur. ror 'ej pIv veD. "majQa'!" jatlh vajar. ghIq =
jatlh,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">"maja'chuqnIS." beb HeH bIngDaq gheD =
luQotmoH.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">ghunchu'wI':<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Unless the animal is still alive =
and they're letting it get some =
rest,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">I believe this stretches the meaning of {Qot} past =
reasonable limits.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">The "recline" meaning gives me =
the impression that it shouldn't =
apply<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">to something inanimate. =
<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Agreed. =
FYI {Qot} "lie, recline" in canon:<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> DungDaq legh =
'ej QotnIStaH romuluSngan be'pu' <br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"> Romulan women belong on their backs! (ST5 =
notes)<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> QongDaqDaq =
Qotbe' tlhInganpu' <br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> Klingons =
do not lie in bed. (TKW)<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> QotDI' gheD =
tlhejbe' wamwI' <br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> The hunter =
does not lie down with the prey. (TKW)<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">I consider the verb to be almost the opposite of =
{Hu'}.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">or the opposite =
of {Qam} "stand":<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> QamvIS Hegh =
qaq law' torvIS yIn qaq puS <br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> =
Better to die on our feet than live on our knees. (ST6 & =
TKW)<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> yIyong 'ej pa' =
yIQam <br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> Get in and stand =
there. (CK)<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> Qam =
<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> Stand! =
(PK)<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> poSDaq nIHDaq =
je QamtaHvIS SuvwI'pu', chaH jojDaq yItnIS lopwI' =
<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> The initiate must pass =
through a gauntlet of warriors. (S9)<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">{Hu'} "get up" =
in canon is unhelpful:<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">yIHu'<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">[Get up! =
(untranslated)] (ST3 & ST6)<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">--<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Voragh<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Ca'Non =
Master of the Klingons<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockqu=
ote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Tlhingan-hol mailing =
list<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org">Tlhingan-hol@stodi.d=
igitalkingdom.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol">htt=
p://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br></blockq=
uote><br>_______________________________________________<br>Tlhingan-hol =
mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org">Tlhingan-hol@stodi.d=
igitalkingdom.org</a><br>http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/=
tlhingan-hol<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>=
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