[93034] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] nu'uchtaH San ghop
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (De'vID jonpIn)
Fri Apr 27 15:32:17 2012
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120427073133.04624d18@flyingstart.ca>
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:32:00 +0200
From: "De'vID jonpIn" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>
To: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
Qov:
> Canon {cha'maH vagh vatlhvI' Hong} puts the percent before not after. Do =
we
> have other contradictory canon or did you feel the odd structure of a
> law'/puS wanted it afterwards?
pab vIlIj neH.
Qov:
> I swear the very first thing I managed to get out of it was "his army was
> just as gay as his enemy's".
Err.... vIghel 'e' vISuD'a'?
De'vID:
>> HIv 'e' wuq. =A0Qapbej 'e' Sovchu',
Qov:
> You mean {Qapbej} or {QaplaHbej}? =A0The first sounds so strong it might =
be a
> premonition.
The English says he knew he would win, not that he could win, so {Qapbej}.
Qov:
> lujaHtaHvIS? =A0Or I suppose it's wa' mangghom, but you used lu in the ne=
xt
> phrase.
HIja', {lujaHtaHvIS} vIghItlhnIS.
De'vID:
>> =A0'elHa' 'ej DarSeq ronmoH. =A0nargh nach. =A0neghDaj pIlqu'moHlu'mo',
Qov:
> I would not have used {-lu'} here, because the agent of their inspiration
> was clearly either Nobunaga or the coin, both which would be third person
> singular.
It was one or the other, but left unspecified.
De'vID:
>> <quSDaq bIba',> jatlh {Nobunaga}. =A0DarSeq 'ang. =A0ngIq DopDaq nach tu=
'lu'.
Qov:
> vIloypu'!
:-)
De'vID:
>> A great Japanese warrior named Nobunaga decided to attack the enemy
>> although he had only one-tenth the number of men the opposition
>> commanded.
Qov:
> Ah, so you broke it into plenty of sentences. Keep that around ot show ne=
xt
> time a beginner tries to translate a whole sentence of English as one
> sentence of Klingon. It's a very fine example of why not to.
Oh, yeah, no way I was going to do that paragraph as one sentence.
De'vID:
>> On the way he stopped at a Shinto shrine and told his men:
Qov:
> I found it a little interesting that you in narration used a different wo=
rd
> for the lat/chIrgh than he did in dialogue. Was that intentional? I don't
> see the purpose.
Yes, it was intentional. I figured the {lat} is the thing inside a
{chIrgh}. He was already at the {chIrgh}, so saying {chIrgh vISuch}
sounded a bit strange. I mean, in English, when you're outside the
shrine (building), saying "I'm going inside to visit the shrine
(altar)" isn't that weird. But for some reason, standing outside a
{chIrgh} then saying {chIrgh vISuch} sounded a bit off to me.
De'vID:
>> Nobunaga entered the shrine and offered a silent prayer.
Qov:
> I so didn't get this from your translation. Is it canon I'm missing? =A0I
> understood that he was softly cursing, to insult or challenge fate.
No, no canon. I just didn't know what the Klingon understanding of
"silent prayer" might be. We know Klingons meditate as well as pray,
but we don't have those words. I figured someone with a better
knowledge of Klingon culture would correct me here.
Qov:
> I know
> you don't want to go to {QunvaD qoy'} and I'm not sure whether the prayer=
in
> this case would be {no' quvmoH} or {Qun quvmoH}. If you know, that might =
be
> the closest. If you don't {lat quvmoHmeH tamtaHvIS jatlh} would seem to c=
ome
> a lot closer to "silent prayer" than curses.
Nobunaga is not petitioning a god(dess), or ancestors, or anything
personified when he offers his silent prayer. It's more like a wish.
I don't think he's {quvmoH}ing anything, though I suppose that's
better than {qoy'} or {tlhob} or whatever. (Actually, he's a bit of a
skeptic in the story, and is doing the prayer just for show anyway.)
-- =
De'vID
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