[92858] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] The Lord's Prayer
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Philip Newton)
Tue Apr 17 08:50:25 2012
In-Reply-To: <CAMZYS2XMoPuYvovExb38iAmDiaDxc+2wF3g1z4HqL7nGG4nwfA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Philip Newton <philip.newton@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 14:49:50 +0200
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 10:23, Michael Roney, Jr. PKT <nahqun@gmail.com> wrote:
> 9 Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
> Suto'vo'qorDaq SoHtaH vavmaj; ponglIj quvmoH.
>
> **So am I correct in saying that God's name can't speak?
> There seems to be some debate on this topic...
Misunderstanding - I was referring to your use of {vavmaj} rather than
your use of {ponglIj}.
The father can speak, so I think he should be {vavma'}.
>>Qov:
>>"Hallowed be thy name" is a wish that something happen, See TKD 4.2.9 appendix.
>
> **Is it? I didn't gloss that from the text.
> **I took it as "Your name is hallowed"
That would be "Hallowed is thy name". I agree with Qov that the use of
the subjunctive "be" marks it as a wish.
The Greek has an imperative here (which acts as a jussive in the third
person, I think -- the "may" idea which corresponds pretty much to
{-jaj}, as I understand it).
> 10 Thy kingdom come.
> wo'Daj cher
>
> **Yes, that should be {wo'lIj} unless the kingdom can speak...
...in which case it would be {wo'lI'}, but not in any event {wo'Daj}.
Also {cherlu'jaj}, I think: again with the subjunctive "come" (normal
indicative would be "Thy kingdom comes" with final -s) pointing
towards {-jaj} for me. And again, the Greek has an imperative/jussive
here.
> 11 Give us this day our daily bread.
>
> DaHjajvam tIr ngoghmaj junobneS.
Not {ghonobneS}?
It feels like an imperative, and the Greek is definitely one.
Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@gmail.com>
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