[92712] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] To-Be-Constructions
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Sat Mar 31 18:02:04 2012
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: Philip Newton <philip.newton@gmail.com>, "tlhingan-hol@kli.org"
<tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 22:01:35 +0000
In-Reply-To: <CA+cwSm_UMMoG41Mo7++DJt3nuGYT76WgqiW4MnsVr_WbQYF0=g@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
I prefer {X 'oH pongwIj'e'}, for much the same reasons as others have expla=
ined (my name is the topic of the discussion), but canon seems to lean in t=
he other direction. Looking at some examples (from memory, since klingonska=
.org/canon appears to be down):
Sojvetlh 'oH nuq'e'? ("What is that food?")
Dochvam nuq? ("What's this thing?")
yIH nuq? ("What is a tribble?")
In all of these cases, it seems that the thing you're being asked to descri=
be in more detail is the object.
Going by these example, I'd judge that the best way to ask somebody their n=
ame would be {ponglIj nuq?} or {ponglIj 'oH nuq'e'?}
From this, it seems reasonable to extrapolate that "My name is loghaD" woul=
d be put as {pongwIj 'oH loghaD'e'.}
________________________________________
From: Philip Newton [philip.newton@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 22:24
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] To-Be-Constructions
On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 20:25, Lieven Litaer <lieven.litaer@web.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> without giving my own opinion, I ask all of you:
>
> Do you see any difference between
> {A 'oH B-'e'} and {B 'oH A-'e'} ?
Yes - a difference in topicness. Pretty much what SuStel said.
> Going one step further, how do you say "My name is X",
{X 'oH pongwIj'e'}
> and why do you not
> use the opposite word order of what was your first choice?
Because typically I want to answer the question "What is your name?"
and not "What is 'Philip Newton'?"
So I answer, effectively: "My name? It's 'Philip Newton'" rather than
"'Philip Newton'? That's my name."
If someone *did*, for some strange reason, ask {nuq 'oH =ABPhilip
Newton=BB'e'?}, I would then probably answer, {pongwIj 'oH =ABPhilip
Newton=BB'e'}.
In general, copulas aren't symmetric, I think, since it's fairly rare
that they're used to signifiy identity - more often, I think, they
signify something else, such as membership in a set ("Lions are
animals" is not the same as "Animals are lions") or quality ("Snow is
white" -- "White is snow" is unusual, and would probably be understood
as a poetic rearrangement of word order rather than having "White" as
the "subject"(?) of the copula).
Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@gmail.com>
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