[91981] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] More new words from Maltz
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (qurgh lungqIj)
Tue Jan 31 15:27:35 2012
In-Reply-To: <F52986192E9FE346B0B7EF3D6F98E87711C17173@EXDB3.ug.kth.se>
From: qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net>
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:26:51 -0500
To: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
Cc: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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When I think of a hollow tree, in relation to QemjIq, I think of a tree
stump that someone has hollowed out (or has been naturally hollowed out by
erosion) and has one big opening for you to fill. If it's a tree that has a
hollow inside, with a single hole going through the outer bark, then that
hole would be a qung (but the inside would be a QemjIq?).
I almost want to say: if the opening is as big, or bigger (radius size)
than the space on the other side of the opening it's a QemjIq, while if the
opening is smaller than the space on the other side then it's a qung.
A picture is worth a thousand words (especially in this case) so this is
how I would label these images:
QemjIq =
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/vtjordan/vtjordan1110/vtjordan111000008/10931107-hollow-tree-stump.jpg
(Wide
opening that can be filled)
qung =
http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/358540/358540,1299443710,4/stock-photo-bird-nest-in-hollow-tree-trunk-72586633.jpg
(small
opening, which would have to be patched, as filling it would fill the
QemjIq? inside the hollow tree before the qung on the surface... )
qurgh
On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se> wrote:
> Indeed, part of me feels like a QemjIq should be a hollow space with a
> single, narrow opening that you could by pouring cement into it if you were
> allowed to rotate it however you wished (like the hollow of a tree: if
> you're allowed to lay the tree down horizontally, you could fill it with
> cement).
>
> ________________________________________
> From: qurgh lungqIj [qurgh@wizage.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 19:46
> To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] More new words from Maltz
>
> I think we need to ask Marc what he was thinking when he said "fillable".
> :)
>
> Number 1 in your suggestion is very fillable IMO, as you can fill it by
> pouring cement into it, while you can't pour cement into a qung (as it
> would simply pour out the other side). qung, on the other hand, can be
> patched by covering it with another material (some of which goes into the
> hole), but patching a QemjIq would simply give it a roof.
>
> I see it as a qung being a hole in something that you can look through and
> see things on the other side, while a QemjIq doesn't have another side. If
> I use a spade, I can dig a QemjIq in the ground, but I can also punch a
> qung in a wall with it (if I could somehow dig all the way through the
> planet and out the other side, I'd have a qung). QemjIq = hole, depression,
> empty pond, drained lake, opening of a volcano, etc; qung = hole, puncture,
> gap, tear in the knee of my pants, bullet hole, etc.
>
> As for a bottle's mouth, I don't see that as qung or QemjIq, as the bottle
> is made that shape. If I drilled a hole into the bottle, that would be a
> qung (just as I have to drill holes into a flute to make it make music, but
> the holes at either end are not qung).
>
> qurgh
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se<mailto:
> felixm@kth.se>> wrote:
> Very true. However, I suspect the comment about QemjIqmey being fillable
> and qungmey not was a bit of a misdtatement; after all, one can fill most
> small qungmey with a bit of lam Dogh.
>
> I suspect the distinction is about one of two things:
>
> 1) Topology: Depressions(holes with "dead ends") are QemjIqmey, true
> holes are qungmey.
> 2) The depth of the material: Much like the way 'ab refers to "longish,
> skinnyish things", perhaps qungmey refer to punctures in "membranish,
> sheetlike things"; things with depths that are small compared to width and
> length.
>
> 2) strikes me as being the more natural distinction to make, alrhough I
> personally prefer 1).
> Neither 1) nor 2) satisfies Okrand's non-fillability criterion, however.
>
> ________________________________________
>
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When I think of a hollow tree, in relation to QemjIq, I think of a tree stu=
mp that someone has hollowed out (or has been naturally hollowed out by ero=
sion) and has one big opening for you to fill. If it's a tree that has =
a hollow inside, with a single hole going through the outer bark, then that=
hole would be a qung (but the inside would be a QemjIq?).=C2=A0<div>
<br></div><div>I almost want to say: if the opening is as big, or bigger (r=
adius size) than the space on the other side of the opening it's a Qemj=
Iq, while if the opening is smaller than the space on the other side then i=
t's a qung.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>A picture is worth a thousand words (especially in this=
case) so this is how I would label these images:</div><div><br></div><div>=
QemjIq =3D=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/vtjordan/vtjor=
dan1110/vtjordan111000008/10931107-hollow-tree-stump.jpg">http://us.123rf.c=
om/400wm/400/400/vtjordan/vtjordan1110/vtjordan111000008/10931107-hollow-tr=
ee-stump.jpg</a>=C2=A0(Wide opening that can be filled)</div>
<div>qung =3D=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_wit=
h_logo/358540/358540,1299443710,4/stock-photo-bird-nest-in-hollow-tree-trun=
k-72586633.jpg">http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/358540/=
358540,1299443710,4/stock-photo-bird-nest-in-hollow-tree-trunk-72586633.jpg=
</a>=C2=A0(small opening, which would have to be patched, as filling it wou=
ld fill the QemjIq? inside the hollow tree before the qung on the surface..=
. )</div>
<div><br></div><div>qurgh</div><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
ue, Jan 31, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Felix Malmenbeck <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=
=3D"mailto:felixm@kth.se">felixm@kth.se</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">
Indeed, part of me feels like a QemjIq should be a hollow space with a sing=
le, narrow opening that you could by pouring cement into it if you were all=
owed to rotate it however you wished (like the hollow of a tree: if you'=
;re allowed to lay the tree down horizontally, you could fill it with cemen=
t).<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: qurgh lungqIj [<a href=3D"mailto:qurgh@wizage.net">qurgh@wizage.net</=
a>]<br>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 19:46<br>
<div class=3D"im HOEnZb">To: <a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org">tlhing=
an-hol@kli.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] More new words from Maltz<br>
<br>
</div><div class=3D"im HOEnZb">I think we need to ask Marc what he was thin=
king when he said "fillable". :)<br>
<br>
Number 1 in your suggestion is very fillable IMO, as you can fill it by pou=
ring cement into it, while you can't pour cement into a qung (as it wou=
ld simply pour out the other side). qung, on the other hand, can be patched=
by covering it with another material (some of which goes into the hole), b=
ut patching a QemjIq would simply give it a roof.<br>
<br>
I see it as a qung being a hole in something that you can look through and =
see things on the other side, while a QemjIq doesn't have another side.=
If I use a spade, I can dig a QemjIq in the ground, but I can also punch a=
qung in a wall with it (if I could somehow dig all the way through the pla=
net and out the other side, I'd have a qung). QemjIq =3D hole, depressi=
on, empty pond, drained lake, opening of a volcano, etc; qung =3D hole, pun=
cture, gap, tear in the knee of my pants, bullet hole, etc.<br>
<br>
As for a bottle's mouth, I don't see that as qung or QemjIq, as the=
bottle is made that shape. If I drilled a hole into the bottle, that would=
be a qung (just as I have to drill holes into a flute to make it make musi=
c, but the holes at either end are not qung).<br>
<br>
qurgh<br>
<br>
</div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:32=
AM, Felix Malmenbeck <<a href=3D"mailto:felixm@kth.se">felixm@kth.se</a=
><mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:felixm@kth.se">felixm@kth.se</a>>> wrot=
e:<br>
Very true. However, I suspect the comment about QemjIqmey being fillable an=
d qungmey not was a bit of a misdtatement; after all, one can fill most sma=
ll qungmey with a bit of lam Dogh.<br>
<br>
I suspect the distinction is about one of two things:<br>
<br>
1) Topology: Depressions(holes with "dead ends") =C2=A0are QemjIq=
mey, true holes are qungmey.<br>
2) The depth of the material: Much like the way 'ab refers to "lon=
gish, skinnyish things", perhaps qungmey refer to punctures in "m=
embranish, sheetlike things"; things with depths that are small compar=
ed to width and length.<br>
<br>
2) strikes me as being the more natural distinction to make, alrhough I per=
sonally prefer 1).<br>
Neither 1) nor 2) satisfies Okrand's non-fillability criterion, however=
.<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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