[91927] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qo''e' tu'bogh pagh - 'ay' chorgh
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Sat Jan 28 18:50:12 2012
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: De'vID jonpIn <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>, "tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org"
<tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org>
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:49:44 +0000
In-Reply-To: <F52986192E9FE346B0B7EF3D6F98E87711C16DC3@EXDB3.ug.kth.se>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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jIghItlhta',
> vel'erIS: maja'chuq vIneH Dorbogh ghu' vIbuSmo'. qaH, yablI' jup ghaHmo' =
yabwI''e' qaghel,
Actually, I wonder if perhaps one could make use of the word ruS, here.
yab ruSmajmo' qaghel
yabmaj ruSmo' qaghel
[Here used -maj rather than -ma', because here it's not a conversation of t=
he minds; it's a conversation because of them.]
That being said, I wonder if this may be misinterpreted as referring to a m=
ind-meld.
Other alternatives:
yabwIjDaq Sum yablIj qaghel
Sovchuqmo' yabmaj qaghel
yajchuqmo' yabmaj qaghel
ja'chuqlaHchu'mo' yabma' qaghel
________________________________
From: Felix Malmenbeck [felixm@kth.se]
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 00:36
To: De'vID jonpIn; tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qo''e' tu'bogh pagh - 'ay' chorgh
Accidentally sent my e-mail only to De'vID. Attached it below. Anyhow, here=
's a quick go at the whole scene:
[Supaq pa']
Supaq: majQa' vel'erIS. 'ampaSDaq DevwI'lI' jIHmo' ta'meylIj vInuD 'ej mube=
lmoH. 'ej vulqangan SoHmo' bIpo' 'e' vIpIH, 'ej bIpo'qu'.
[I'm actually very confused as to what Spock means by "And as a Vulcan, you=
have exceeded my expectations."]
vel'erIS: mIlloghvam vIyajbe'.
[I think nagh beQ may be more appropriate, but mIllogh stroke me as being m=
ore "Vulcan:y", just as "representation" is a very Vulcan:y way to refer to=
a painting. much could also be used.]
Supaq: tera' lalDan tIQ wanI' much. QI'tu' lumej net poQ.
vel'erIS: qatlh pa'lIjDaq Dapol?
[That leaves less room for chocolate!]
Supaq: Dor Hoch. 'e' vIqawmeH naDev vIpol.
vel'erIS: maja'chuq vIneH Dorbogh ghu' vIbuSmo'. qaH, yablI' jup ghaHmo' ya=
bwI''e' qaghel, ghaytan DIvI' choH'a' qaSpu'bogh wanI''a'?
Supaq: reH chentaH 'u' San. ngoDvam DavoqnIS.
vel'erIS: jIyajbe'.
Supaq: QaQbej 'u' San.
[Really not very happy with this line; feels very... ...non-Spock:y.]
vel'erIS: 'e' Datu'bej'a' bImeqDI'? jImeqDI'...
Supaq: meq tu'DI' vay' valchoH, 'ach wej valchu'.
Qu'vam vIvanDI' Dujvam beq vImuvHa'.
Daq chIm lajQo' 'u'. choqa' 'e' vIHech.
vel'erIS: qaqa'meH qItbe'. qacho'laH neH.
'u'uwra' (ghogh HablI'): peqIm. Hoch yaS, SIbI' meH jaH.
Duj poSDaq tlhIngan may'Duj. Hoch yaS, SIbI' meH jaH.
[My attempt at Clipped Klingon.]
My previous message to De'vID:
____________________
Gonna give a few of those a try, just to get the conversation going:
"nature abhors a vacuum"
One's best bet may be to think of a different metaphor, but anyway:
'u'Daq chImchugh wa' Daq tebbejlI' 'u' - If an area is empty in the univers=
e, the universe is definitely working on filling it
'u'Daq chenDI' paghna' chenHa'choHmoH 'u' - As soon as a true nothingness f=
orms in the universe, the universe begins to deconstruct it
Daq chIm lajQo' 'u' - The universe rejects empty places
chImchu'bogh logh lajQo' 'u' - The universe rejects truly empty space
'u'Daq chImchu' vay' net chaw'be' - Nothing in the universe may be empty
Turning points in history:
In paq'batlh, one finds the phrase SaD law' San chenmoH qeylIS.
If destiny can be chenmoH:ed, then probably so can history.
qun luchenmoHbogh wanI''a'mey'e' - great events which have formed history
[choHbogh may also work, but I figure that in an era where time travel is p=
ossible, this may be misinterpreted]
So, the whole thing would be something like:
History is replete with turning points, Lieutenant. You must have faith.
la' pIj qaS qun luchenmoHbogh wanI''a'mey'e'. ngoDvam yIvoq.
Another alternative is:
reH chentaH San. ngoDvam yIvoq.
{Destiny is always forming. Have faith in this fact!}
"That the universe will unfold as it should."
Damn... That's tough.
chenchu'meH chenbejlI' 'u'. {The universe is definitely forming towards the=
goal of forming completely.}
...but I suppose Spock means "as it should" as in "in order to be preferabl=
e", so one might go with:
qaqmeH chenlI' 'u'. {The universe is taking form in order to be preferable.=
}
...though that does feel very weird.
QaQbej 'u' San. {The universe's destiny is definitely good.}
Highly illogical, but of course...
"logic is the beginning of wisdom"
meq tu'DI' vay' valchoH 'a wej valchu'. - When one discovers logic, one beg=
ins to be wise, but one is not yet perfectly wise.
________________________________
From: De'vID jonpIn [de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 23:31
To: tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org
Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] qo''e' tu'bogh pagh - 'ay' chorgh
Does anyone want to volunteer to translate this next chunk? Or, how about =
if we do it by committee? I found it really hard to express some of these =
ideas: "nature abhors a vacuum", "turning points in history", "the universe=
unfolds", "logic is the beginning of wisdom"... yikes.
> [Spock's quarters]
>
> SPOCK: You've done well, Valeris. As your sponsor at the Academy I've
> followed your career with satisfaction. And as a Vulcan, you have
> exceeded my expectations.
> VALERIS: I do not understand this representation.
> (referring to a painting on the wall)
> SPOCK: It's a depiction from ancient Earth mythology. 'The Expulsion
> from Paradise.'
> VALERIS: Why keep it in your quarters?
> SPOCK: To be a reminder to me that all things end.
> VALERIS: It is of endings that I wish to speak. Sir, I address you as
> a kindred intellect. Do you not recognise ...that a turning point has
> been reached in the affairs of the Federation?
> SPOCK: History is replete with turning points, Lieutenant. You must have =
faith.
> VALERIS: Faith?
> SPOCK: That the universe will unfold as it should.
> VALERIS: But is this logical? Surely we must...
> SPOCK: Logic? ...Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the
> end. ...This will be my final voyage on board this vessel as a member
> of her crew. Nature abhors a vacuum. I intend you to replace me.
> VALERIS: I could only succeed you, sir.
> UHURA (on intercom): Now hear this. All officers to the bridge.
> Klingon battle cruiser off the port bow. All officers to the bridge.
--
De'vID
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<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">jIghItlhta',<br>
> <font color=3D"black" face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt;" dir=3D"ltr">vel'erIS: maja'chuq vIneH Dorbogh ghu' vIbuSmo'. qa=
H, yablI' jup ghaHmo' yabwI''e' qaghel,<br>
<br>
Actually, I wonder if perhaps one could make use of the word ruS, here.<br>
<br>
yab ruSmajmo' qaghel<br>
<br>
yabmaj ruSmo' qaghel<br>
[Here used -maj rather than -ma', because here it's not a conversation of t=
he minds; it's a conversation because of them.]<br>
<br>
That being said, I wonder if this may be misinterpreted as referring to a m=
ind-meld.<br>
<br>
Other alternatives:</span></font><font color=3D"black" face=3D"Tahoma" size=
=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" dir=3D"ltr"><br>
<br>
yabwIjDaq Sum yablIj qaghel</span></font><br>
<font color=3D"black" face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;" dir=3D"ltr"><br>
Sovchuqmo' yabmaj qaghel<br>
<br>
yajchuqmo' yabmaj qaghel<br>
<br>
ja'chuqlaHchu'mo' yabma' qaghel<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size:=
16px;">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;" id=3D"divRpF24539"><font color=3D"#000000" f=
ace=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><b>From:</b> Felix Malmenbeck [felixm@kth.se]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 29, 2012 00:36<br>
<b>To:</b> De'vID jonpIn; tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qo''e' tu'bogh pagh - 'ay' chorgh<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Tahoma; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); fon=
t-size: 10pt;">
Accidentally sent my e-mail only to De'vID. Attached it below. Anyhow, here=
's a quick go at the whole scene:<br>
<br>
[Supaq pa']<br>
<br>
Supaq: majQa' vel'erIS. 'ampaSDaq DevwI'lI' jIHmo' ta'meylIj vInuD 'ej mube=
lmoH. 'ej vulqangan SoHmo' bIpo' 'e' vIpIH, 'ej bIpo'qu'.<br>
[I'm actually very confused as to what Spock means by "And as a Vulcan=
, you have exceeded my expectations."]<br>
<br>
vel'erIS: mIlloghvam vIyajbe'.<br>
[I think nagh beQ may be more appropriate, but mIllogh stroke me as being m=
ore "Vulcan:y", just as "representation" is a very Vulc=
an:y way to refer to a painting. much could also be used.]<br>
<br>
Supaq: tera' lalDan tIQ wanI' much. QI'tu' lumej net poQ.<br>
<br>
vel'erIS: qatlh pa'lIjDaq Dapol?<br>
[That leaves less room for chocolate!]<br>
<br>
Supaq: Dor Hoch. 'e' vIqawmeH naDev vIpol.<br>
<br>
vel'erIS: maja'chuq vIneH Dorbogh ghu' vIbuSmo'. qaH, yablI' jup ghaHmo' ya=
bwI''e' qaghel, ghaytan DIvI' choH'a' qaSpu'bogh wanI''a'?<br>
<br>
Supaq: reH chentaH 'u' San. ngoDvam DavoqnIS.<br>
<br>
vel'erIS: jIyajbe'.<br>
<br>
Supaq: QaQbej 'u' San.<br>
[Really not very happy with this line; feels very... ...non-Spock:y.]<br>
<br>
vel'erIS: 'e' Datu'bej'a' bImeqDI'? jImeqDI'...<br>
<br>
Supaq: meq tu'DI' vay' valchoH, 'ach wej valchu'.<br>
Qu'vam vIvanDI' Dujvam beq vImuvHa'.<br>
Daq chIm lajQo' 'u'. choqa' 'e' vIHech.<br>
<br>
vel'erIS: qaqa'meH qItbe'. qacho'laH neH.<br>
<br>
'u'uwra' (ghogh HablI'): peqIm. Hoch yaS, SIbI' meH jaH.<br>
Duj poSDaq tlhIngan may'Duj. Hoch yaS, SIbI' meH jaH.<br>
[My attempt at Clipped Klingon.]<br>
<br>
<br>
My previous message to De'vID:<br>
____________________<br>
<br>
<font color=3D"black" face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span dir=3D"ltr" style=3D=
"font-size: 10pt;">Gonna give a few of those a try, just to get the convers=
ation going:<br>
<br>
"nature abhors a vacuum"<br>
One's best bet may be to think of a different metaphor, but anyway:<br>
<br>
'u'Daq chImchugh wa' Daq tebbejlI' 'u' - If an area is empty in the univers=
e, the universe is definitely working on filling it<br>
'u'Daq chenDI' paghna' chenHa'choHmoH 'u' - As soon as a true nothingness f=
orms in the universe, the universe begins to deconstruct it<br>
<br>
Daq chIm lajQo' 'u' - The universe rejects empty places<br>
chImchu'bogh logh lajQo' 'u' - The universe rejects truly empty space<br>
'u'Daq chImchu' vay' net chaw'be' - Nothing in the universe may be empty<br=
>
<br>
Turning points in history:<br>
In paq'batlh, one finds the phrase SaD law' San chenmoH qeylIS.<br>
If destiny can be chenmoH:ed, then probably so can history.<br>
<br>
qun luchenmoHbogh wanI''a'mey'e' - great events which have formed history<b=
r>
[choHbogh may also work, but I figure that in an era where time travel is p=
ossible, this may be misinterpreted]<br>
<br>
So, the whole thing would be something like:<br>
<br>
History is replete with turning points, Lieutenant. You must have faith.<br=
>
la' pIj qaS qun luchenmoHbogh wanI''a'mey'e'. ngoDvam yIvoq.<br>
<br>
Another alternative is:<br>
reH chentaH San. ngoDvam yIvoq.<br>
{Destiny is always forming. Have faith in this fact!}<br>
<br>
"That the universe will unfold as it should."<br>
<br>
Damn... That's tough.<br>
<br>
chenchu'meH chenbejlI' 'u'. {The universe is definitely forming towards the=
goal of forming completely.}<br>
...but I suppose Spock means "as it should" as in "in order =
to be preferable", so one might go with:<br>
<br>
qaqmeH chenlI' 'u'. {The universe is taking form in order to be preferable.=
}<br>
...though that does feel very weird.<br>
<br>
QaQbej 'u' San. {The universe's destiny is definitely good.}<br>
Highly illogical, but of course...<br>
<br>
"logic is the beginning of wisdom"<br>
<br>
meq tu'DI' vay' valchoH 'a wej valchu'. - When one discovers logic, one beg=
ins to be wise, but one is not yet perfectly wise.</span></font><br>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size:=
16px;">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF427952" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font color=3D"#000000" =
face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><b>From:</b> De'vID jonpIn [de.vid.jonpin@gmail.=
com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 28, 2012 23:31<br>
<b>To:</b> tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Tlhingan-hol] qo''e' tu'bogh pagh - 'ay' chorgh<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<p>Does anyone want to volunteer to translate this next chunk? Or, ho=
w about if we do it by committee? I found it really hard to express s=
ome of these ideas: "nature abhors a vacuum", "turning point=
s in history", "the universe unfolds", "logic is the be=
ginning
of wisdom"... yikes.</p>
<p>> [Spock's quarters]<br>
><br>
> SPOCK: You've done well, Valeris. As your sponsor at the Academy I've<=
br>
> followed your career with satisfaction. And as a Vulcan, you have<br>
> exceeded my expectations.<br>
> VALERIS: I do not understand this representation.<br>
> (referring to a painting on the wall)<br>
> SPOCK: It's a depiction from ancient Earth mythology. 'The Expulsion<b=
r>
> from Paradise.'<br>
> VALERIS: Why keep it in your quarters?<br>
> SPOCK: To be a reminder to me that all things end.<br>
> VALERIS: It is of endings that I wish to speak. Sir, I address you as<=
br>
> a kindred intellect. Do you not recognise ...that a turning point has<=
br>
> been reached in the affairs of the Federation?<br>
> SPOCK: History is replete with turning points, Lieutenant. You must ha=
ve faith.<br>
> VALERIS: Faith?<br>
> SPOCK: That the universe will unfold as it should.<br>
> VALERIS: But is this logical? Surely we must...<br>
> SPOCK: Logic? ...Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the<br=
>
> end. ...This will be my final voyage on board this vessel as a member<=
br>
> of her crew. Nature abhors a vacuum. I intend you to replace me.<br>
> VALERIS: I could only succeed you, sir.<br>
> UHURA (on intercom): Now hear this. All officers to the bridge.<br>
> Klingon battle cruiser off the port bow. All officers to the bridge.</=
p>
<p>--<br>
De'vID</p>
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