[91908] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qIHpu'ghach wa'DIch - 'ay' wa'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh)
Sat Jan 28 06:53:24 2012
From: Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
To: <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 21:53:05 +1000
In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmMi+uG4yAUATa+kX=Bhgzdnxgd3qr7N1rRWDH_Y-72g0g@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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jIghItlhpu'=2C jIjatlh:
> PICARD: chaw': pIqarD [1] loS Soch 'at tay. - 'aj.
mujang De'vID=2C jatlh:
> Phonetic alphabets are used to disambiguate similar sounding letters=2C s=
o using the {-ay} form of the Klingon "letters" is not really appropriate h=
ere.
Well=2C it's the only way of naming Klingon sounds=2C letters=2C or anythin=
g similar that we have=2C and since we had them I thought it was the best a=
lternative.
jIH:
> HAYES: SoHvaD qab'a' poH=2C janluq?
De'vID:
> I had to think about what {poH qab} means. "Did I catch you at a bad tim=
e?" is a colloquial expression=2C and I think you should rephrase this in K=
lingon.
Yeah=2C I think you're right. In retrospect=2C it's too idiomatic and I lik=
e your suggestion=2C though for brevity I may just use {qaqaghpu''a'} "have=
I interrupted you?".
jIH:
> HAYES: muSujbogh vay' Qumpu' logh Hop vagh.
De'vID:
> Maybe use {QIn} instead of {vay'}?
vIlajbej.
> Also=2C I'm not sure {Qum} can take an object (though I've probably used =
it that way myself)=2C perhaps {ngeH} is better.
Possibly=2C though I'm like Qov in that I'm often a little more permissive =
with what I allow to take a direct object when we have no canon evidence on=
e way or the other. When I'm not thinking about it I often use {jeS} with a=
direct object=2C for instance. But if I use {QIn} then I'll definitely be =
happy to change {Qum} to {ngeH}.
jIH:
> PICARD: neHmaH wIngIv net ra'. 'eb lujon romuluSnganpu' 'e' wImevmeH. [2]
De'vID:
> I'd add a {-vam} to {'eb} to make it more clear.
vIlaj.
jIH:
> DATA: HoD=2C romuluS wo' veHDaq qaSbe'pu' wanI' motlhbe' qaStaHvIS Hut ja=
r.
De'vID:
> Instead of {qaSbe'} and {motlhbe'}=2C how about {qaS} and {ram}? I am re=
minded of Kruge's line from Star Trek III: {naDev qaS wanI' ramqu'} "There'=
s nothing happening here"=2C literally=2C "A very insignificant event is ha=
ppening here"=2C or "trivial things are happening here".
That's a good point - I might change this to {romuluS wo' veHDaq qaS wanI' =
ram neH qaStaHvIS Hut jar}.
> (I'd also put the {qaStaHvIS...} first=2C but keep it this way if you hav=
e to sync to the spoken dialogue.)
Only {-meH} clauses need to come before the main clause. Other subordinate =
clauses can appear either before or after=2C can't they?
jIH:
> CRUSHER: maqeqnIStaH 'e' Har'a' 'ejyo'?
De'vID:
> What does "shakedown time" actually mean? I think it's time to get a new=
crew familiarised with a ship (remind me=2C did the Enterprise get destroy=
ed before this movie? Is this a new ship?)
Yep=2C that's all true. This is the Enterprise-E=2C the new Enterprise afte=
r the destruction of the Enterprise-D in Star Trek Generations.
> which is not quite merely "training" or "practice". Maybe add a {Dujvam =
wISovchu'meH} to clarify?
This is another place where I had to be brief for reasons of timing. What i=
f I recast to {Duj wI'olnIStaH 'e' Har'a' 'ejyo'}?
jIH:
> yo' Dujmey'e' 'entepray' 'et 'Itlh law' Hoch 'Itlh puS.
De'vID:
>Problem: {'et} means "fore". {'entepray' 'et} is the front of the Enterpr=
ise=2C maybe Ten Forward=2C or the saucer section=2C or something.
Good point. I'll add a hyphen ({'entepray'-'et}) to try to clear this up - =
there's a line later on that really requires I use the letter names:
CRUSHER: So much for the Enterprise-E.PICARD: We barely knew her.CRUSHER: D=
o you think they'll build another one?PICARD: Plenty of letters left in the=
alphabet.
> Is there canon for {'Itlh}? For some reason I have the idea that it refe=
rs to civilisations and the like.
All I could find was its definition of "be advanced=2C highly developed" fr=
om TKD. I thought I'd seen it in the paq'batlh but can't seem to find it ag=
ain.
jIH:
> PICARD: maja'chuqtaHvIS jIH 'ejyo' ra'ghomquv je 'e' wIqel. wIra'lu'taH. =
yaS wa'DIch=2C neHmaH He yIcher.
De'vID:
> I think {cher} isn't used in this sense. "set up=2C establish" sounds to=
me like what you'd do with an organisation=2C school=2C or the like=2C not=
with a course.
I think it's more general than that. We have canon for it with {ngoch} "pol=
icy"=2C which I think is a parallel sense to how I use it with {He}:
ngoch luchermeH 'ej wo' San luwuqmeH pa' ghom tlhIngan yejquv DevwI'pu'"The=
re=2C the leaders of the Klingon High Council meet to determine policy and =
decide upon the fate of the Empire." (S25)
> This is great=2C I can't wait to see more.
luq!
QeS 'utlh
=
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jIghItlhpu'=2C jIjatlh:<br>>=3B PICARD: chaw': pIqarD [1] loS Soch 'at ta=
y. - 'aj.<br><br>mujang De'vID=2C jatlh:<br><div>
>=3B Phonetic alphabets are used to disambiguate similar sounding letters=
=2C so using the {-ay} form of the Klingon "letters" is not really appropri=
ate here.<BR><br><BR>Well=2C it's the only way of naming Klingon sounds=2C =
letters=2C or anything similar that we have=2C and since we had them I thou=
ght it was the best alternative.<br><BR><br><BR>jIH:<br>>=3B HAYES: SoHva=
D qab'a' poH=2C janluq?
<br><BR>De'vID:<br><BR>>=3B I had to think about what {poH qab} means.&nb=
sp=3B "Did I catch you at a bad time?" is a colloquial expression=2C and I =
think you should rephrase this in Klingon.<BR><br><BR>Yeah=2C I think you'r=
e right. In retrospect=2C it's too idiomatic and I like your suggestion=2C =
though for brevity I may just use {qaqaghpu''a'} "have I interrupted you?".=
<br><BR><br><BR>jIH:<br>>=3B HAYES: muSujbogh vay' Qumpu' logh Hop vagh.
<br><BR>De'vID:<br><BR>>=3B Maybe use {QIn} instead of {vay'}?<BR><br><BR=
>vIlajbej.<br><BR><br><BR>>=3B Also=2C I'm not sure {Qum} can take an obj=
ect (though I've probably used it that way myself)=2C perhaps {ngeH} is bet=
ter.<BR><br><BR>Possibly=2C though I'm like Qov in that I'm often a little =
more permissive with what I allow to take a direct object when we have no c=
anon evidence one way or the other. When I'm not thinking about it I often =
use {jeS} with a direct object=2C for instance. But if I use {QIn} then I'l=
l definitely be happy to change {Qum} to {ngeH}.<br><BR><br><BR>jIH:<br>>=
=3B PICARD: neHmaH wIngIv net ra'. 'eb lujon romuluSnganpu' 'e' wImevmeH. [=
2]
<br><BR>De'vID:<br><BR>>=3B I'd add a {-vam} to {'eb} to make it more cle=
ar.<BR><br><BR>vIlaj.<br><BR><br><BR>jIH:<br>>=3B DATA: HoD=2C romuluS wo=
' veHDaq qaSbe'pu' wanI' motlhbe' qaStaHvIS Hut jar.
<br><BR>De'vID:<br><BR>>=3B Instead of {qaSbe'} and {motlhbe'}=2C how abo=
ut {qaS} and {ram}? =3B I am reminded of Kruge's line from Star Trek II=
I: {naDev qaS wanI' ramqu'} "There's nothing happening here"=2C literally=
=2C "A very insignificant event is happening here"=2C or "trivial things ar=
e happening here".<BR><br><BR>That's a good point - I might change this to =
{romuluS wo' veHDaq qaS wanI' ram neH qaStaHvIS Hut jar}.<br><BR><br><BR>&g=
t=3B (I'd also put the {qaStaHvIS...} first=2C but keep it this way if you =
have to sync to the spoken dialogue.)<br><br>Only {-meH} clauses need to co=
me before the main clause. Other subordinate clauses can appear either befo=
re or after=2C can't they?<br><br>
jIH:<br><BR>>=3B CRUSHER: maqeqnIStaH 'e' Har'a' 'ejyo'?<BR>
<br><BR>De'vID:<br><BR>>=3B What does "shakedown time" actually mean?&nbs=
p=3B I think it's time to get a new crew familiarised with a ship (remind m=
e=2C did the Enterprise get destroyed before this movie? =3B Is this a =
new ship?)<BR><br><BR>Yep=2C that's all true. This is the Enterprise-E=2C t=
he new Enterprise after the destruction of the Enterprise-D in Star Trek Ge=
nerations.<br><BR><br><BR>>=3B which is not quite merely "training" or "p=
ractice". =3B Maybe add a {Dujvam wISovchu'meH} to clarify?<BR><br><BR>=
This is another place where I had to be brief for reasons of timing. What i=
f I recast to {Duj wI'olnIStaH 'e' Har'a' 'ejyo'}?<br><BR><br><BR>
jIH:<br><BR>>=3B yo' Dujmey'e' 'entepray' 'et 'Itlh law' Hoch 'Itlh puS.<=
BR>
<br><BR>De'vID:<br><BR>>=3BProblem: {'et} means "fore". =3B {'entepra=
y' 'et} is the front of the Enterprise=2C maybe Ten Forward=2C or the sauce=
r section=2C or something.<BR><br><BR>Good point. I'll add a hyphen ({'ente=
pray'-'et}) to try to clear this up - there's a line later on that really r=
equires I use the letter names:<BR><br><BR>CRUSHER: So much for the Enterpr=
ise-E.<BR>PICARD: We barely knew her.<BR>CRUSHER: Do you think they'll buil=
d another one?<BR>PICARD: Plenty of letters left in the alphabet.<br><BR><b=
r><BR>
>=3B Is there canon for {'Itlh}? =3B For some reason I have the idea =
that it refers to civilisations and the like.<BR><br><BR>All I could find w=
as its definition of "be advanced=2C highly developed" from TKD. I thought =
I'd seen it in the paq'batlh but can't seem to find it again.<br><BR><br><B=
R>
jIH:<br><BR>>=3B PICARD: maja'chuqtaHvIS jIH 'ejyo' ra'ghomquv je 'e' wIq=
el. wIra'lu'taH. yaS wa'DIch=2C neHmaH He yIcher.<BR>
<br><BR>De'vID:<br><BR>>=3B I think {cher} isn't used in this sense. =
=3B "set up=2C establish" sounds to me like what you'd do with an organisat=
ion=2C school=2C or the like=2C not with a course.<BR><br><BR>I think it's =
more general than that. We have canon for it with {ngoch} "policy"=2C which=
I think is a parallel sense to how I use it with {He}:<BR><br><BR>ngoch lu=
chermeH 'ej wo' San luwuqmeH pa' ghom tlhIngan yejquv DevwI'pu'<BR>"There=
=2C the leaders of the Klingon High Council meet to determine policy and de=
cide upon the fate of the Empire." (S25)<br><BR><br><BR>
>=3B This is great=2C I can't wait to see more.<BR><br><BR>luq!<BR><br><B=
R>QeS 'utlh<br><BR></div> </div></body>
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