[91856] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Newbie question about vIneHbogh construction
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Thu Jan 26 11:19:19 2012
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: Wiechu <ddanecki@gmail.com>, "tlhIngan-Hol@KLI.org" <tlhIngan-Hol@KLI.org>
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:18:24 +0000
In-Reply-To: <CAGBhE_hfym7XSjZy7bMFdKngih9ka0ED_WD9Q7xcZYTOzF=pZw@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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> tujangpu' 'e' vItlho'.
I think you want tujangta'mo' Satlho'. Otherwise, you're thanking the reply=
ing, not the repliers.
> wa' mu'tlheghDaq bogh neH latlh wot je vIlo' 'e' QaQbe' qech.
To the best of y knowledge, QaQ cannot take an object. I recommend somethin=
g like: "[...] vIlo' 'e' vInID 'ach QaQbe' qechvam." ("I tried to use [...]=
, but this idea is not good.")
> vIlatlhmeH cha' DuHmey vIlo'laH 'e' vIQub.
Did you mean vIjatlhmeH, by any chance? latlh isn't a verb.
> qatlh pong wot lo'taH SuStel, vIyajbe'.
Recommend changing "[...] SuStel, vIyajbe'" to "[...] SuStel. jIyajbe'." Ot=
herwise, it looks like you're trying to use a question as an object to make=
a statement, which does not appear to be allowed (you're allowed to use qu=
estions as objects to pose questions, such as <nuq Datlhutlh DaneH> ("What =
to you want to drink?"), but what you wanted was probably "I don't understa=
nd why SuStel is using the verb <pong>.", which is a statement and therefor=
e not permitted).
> nuQ SuQub ?
I think you want nuq boQub. ("What do you think?")
> vIQos vIQaghchugh, taghwI' jIH.
I'd recommend jIQoS jIQaghchugh, as it's unclear what the object of either =
of those verbs would be.
...'a bIQoSmeH meq tu'lu'be'. po'wI' mojmeH vay' wa'DIch taghwI' mojnIS 'ej=
pIghojmoHtaHvIS maghoj je.
Qapla' HaDwI'!
________________________________
From: Wiechu [ddanecki@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 16:48
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Newbie question about vIneHbogh construction
tujangpu' 'e' vItlho'.
SuStel QIn vIlaDpu'DI' QaghwIj vIyaj.
wa' mu'tlheghDaq bogh neH latlh wot je vIlo' 'e' QaQbe' qech.
vIlatlhmeH cha' DuHmey vIlo'laH 'e' vIQub.
1) Qov DuH: Dochmey vIleghnISbogh.
2) loghaD DuH: vIleghmeH Dochmey vIneHbogh.
qatlh pong wot lo'taH SuStel, vIyajbe'.
nuQ SuQub ?
vIQos vIQaghchugh, taghwI' jIH.
--
Wiechu
2012/1/25 Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu<mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu>>
FYI we have two examples of {neHbogh} in canon:
vay' DaneHbogh yIchargh
Conquer what you desire. TKW
nuH DaneHbogh yIngu'!
Which weapon do you want?
("Identify the weapon that you want!")
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip Newton [mailto:philip.newton@gmail.com<mailto:philip.newton@=
gmail.com>]
>
> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 23:45, Wiechu <ddanecki@gmail.com<mailto:ddanecki=
@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> I wan to say in Klingon: "Things I want to see" or "Things which I
>> want to see"
>>
>> I came with this: Dochmey vIlegh vIneHbogh.
>
> Perhaps one way of looking at this is to remember that {Dochmey vIlegh
> vIneH} is (as I understand it) two separate sentences: {Dochmey
> vIlegh} and {vIneH}. With other verbs than {neH}, you need {'e'},
> which makes this clearer - for example, "I see you eat gagh" would be
> {qagh DaSop 'e' vIlegh} ("You eat gagh; I see that"). Translating that
> as "I see you eat gagh" is idiomatically better English but doesn't
> reflect the structure of the Klingon particularly well.
>
> So what you're wanting is to access something from the first sentence
> *out of* the second sentence. I'm not sure whether that works -
> {vIneHbogh} would probably either relativise its subject ("The I that
> wants; I who want") or its objects, which I guess is {'e'}: "The fact
> of 'I see things' that I want".
>
> Cheers,
> Philip
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<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">> tujangpu' 'e' vItlho'.<br>
<br>
I think you want tujangta'mo' Satlho'. Otherwise, you're thanking the reply=
ing, not the repliers.<br>
<br>
> wa' mu'tlheghDaq bogh neH latlh wot je vIlo' 'e' QaQbe' qech.<br>
<br>
To the best of y knowledge, QaQ cannot take an object. I recommend somethin=
g like: "[...] vIlo' 'e' vInID 'ach QaQbe' qechvam." ("I tri=
ed to use [...], but this idea is not good.")<br>
<br>
> vIlatlhmeH cha' DuHmey vIlo'laH 'e' vIQub.<br>
<br>
Did you mean vIjatlhmeH, by any chance? latlh isn't a verb.<br>
<br>
> qatlh pong wot lo'taH SuStel, vIyajbe'. <br>
<br>
Recommend changing "[...] SuStel, vIyajbe'" to "[...] SuStel=
. jIyajbe'." Otherwise, it looks like you're trying to use a question =
as an object to make a statement, which does not appear to be allowed (you'=
re allowed to use questions as objects to pose questions,
such as <nuq Datlhutlh DaneH> ("What to you want to drink?"=
;), but what you wanted was probably "I don't understand why SuStel is=
using the verb <pong>.", which is a statement and therefore not=
permitted).<br>
<br>
> nuQ SuQub ?<br>
<br>
I think you want nuq boQub. ("What do you think?")<br>
<br>
> vIQos vIQaghchugh, taghwI' jIH.<br>
<br>
I'd recommend jIQoS jIQaghchugh, as it's unclear what the object of either =
of those verbs would be.<br>
<br>
...'a bIQoSmeH meq tu'lu'be'. po'wI' mojmeH vay' wa'DIch taghwI' mojnIS 'ej=
pIghojmoHtaHvIS maghoj je.<br>
<br>
Qapla' HaDwI'!<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size:=
16px;">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;" id=3D"divRpF521323"><font color=3D"#000000" =
face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><b>From:</b> Wiechu [ddanecki@gmail.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 26, 2012 16:48<br>
<b>To:</b> tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Newbie question about vIneHbogh construc=
tion<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div>tujangpu' 'e' vItlho'.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>SuStel QIn vIlaDpu'DI' QaghwIj vIyaj. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>wa' mu'tlheghDaq bogh neH latlh wot je vIlo' 'e' QaQbe' qech.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>vIlatlhmeH cha' DuHmey vIlo'laH 'e' vIQub.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1) Qov DuH: Dochmey vIleghnISbogh.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2) loghaD DuH: vIleghmeH Dochmey vIneHbogh.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>qatlh pong wot lo'taH SuStel, vIyajbe'. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>nuQ SuQub ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>vIQos vIQaghchugh, taghwI' jIH.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">=
--<br>
Wiechu</span><br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2012/1/25 Steven Boozer <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a=
href=3D"mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu" target=3D"_blank">sboozer@uchicago.ed=
u</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde=
r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
FYI we have two examples of {neHbogh} in canon:<br>
<br>
vay' DaneHbogh yIchargh<br>
Conquer what you desire. TKW<br>
<br>
nuH DaneHbogh yIngu'!<br>
Which weapon do you want?<br>
("Identify the weapon that you want!")<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
--<br>
Voragh<br>
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons<br>
</font>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Philip Newton [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:philip.newton@gmail.com"=
target=3D"_blank">philip.newton@gmail.com</a>]<br>
><br>
> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 23:45, Wiechu <<a href=3D"mailto:ddanecki@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">ddanecki@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> I wan to say in Klingon: "Things I want to see" or "=
;Things which I<br>
>> want to see"<br>
>><br>
>> I came with this: Dochmey vIlegh vIneHbogh.<br>
><br>
> Perhaps one way of looking at this is to remember that {Dochmey vIlegh=
<br>
> vIneH} is (as I understand it) two separate sentences: {Dochmey<br>
> vIlegh} and {vIneH}. With other verbs than {neH}, you need {'e'},<br>
> which makes this clearer - for example, "I see you eat gagh"=
would be<br>
> {qagh DaSop 'e' vIlegh} ("You eat gagh; I see that"). Transl=
ating that<br>
> as "I see you eat gagh" is idiomatically better English but =
doesn't<br>
> reflect the structure of the Klingon particularly well.<br>
><br>
> So what you're wanting is to access something from the first sentence<=
br>
> *out of* the second sentence. I'm not sure whether that works -<br>
> {vIneHbogh} would probably either relativise its subject ("The I =
that<br>
> wants; I who want") or its objects, which I guess is {'e'}: "=
;The fact<br>
> of 'I see things' that I want".<br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Philip<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div></div>
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