[91714] in tlhIngan-Hol
[Tlhingan-hol] qo''e' tu'bogh pagh - 'ay' loS
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (De'vID jonpIn)
Mon Jan 16 08:52:22 2012
In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmPsG3zzQS1uinDoBEM4-EkH-72jadP8kJ_WqUGuWKog9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 14:52:09 +0100
From: "De'vID jonpIn" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>
To: tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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Some very difficult lines in this part.
(CARTWRIGHT: nuq wISutlh?)
SPOCK: neHmaH HeH retlhDaq tengchaHmeymaj 'ejyo'waw'meymaj je DIlagh.
tlhoS qaStaHvIS SochmaH DIS, maSuvchuqrupqu' tlhInganpu' maH je. Dor
ghu'vam'e' luDIllaHbe'bogh tlhInganpu'.
boQDu': *Bill*, 'ejyo' wIpujqu'moH 'e' wIchup'a'?
C in C: malengbejtaH[1] 'ej maQulbejtaH, HoD, 'ach...
CARTWRIGHT: jImorghnIS. DIvI' logh qoDDaq wunHa'choH tlhInganpu' 'e'
wIchaw'chugh vaj maHoH'egh. qIbDaq nov veQ lumoj tlhInganpu'. 'ej 'ejyo'
wIlaghchugh, yermaj DanDI' mut vaQ[2] maHub'eghlaHbe'. tormoHmeH 'eb 'oH
'ebvam'e'. ghIq mab wIqon 'e' wIpoQmeH HoSmaj QaQ law' HoSchaj QaQ puS.[3]
KIRK: qaH!
C in C: *qIrq* HoD?
KIRK: not tlhInganpu' voqlaH vay'.[4] DoS'e' qIpbogh *Cartwright* 'aj
vIqIp[5] 'e' raDlu'.[6] qechvam lajvIplu'.[7]
[1] - I'm surprised there's no word for "explore", considering "to explore
strange new worlds" and all that.
[2] - Can {vaQ} be applied to {mut}?
[3] - "Then we'll be in a far better position..." Better than what? I
don't know how to express a comparative in Klingon where the thing being
compared to isn't specified. I've translated it as "we'll be in a better
position than the Klingons", but I think Cartwright really means "we'll be
in a better position than we are now". I'd written {ghIq HoSmaj QaQ law'
DaH HoSmaj QaQ puS}, but can the adverbials {ghIq} and {DaH} be used in
this way?
[4] - Or should this be {reH tlhInganpu' voqlaH pagh}? Of course, what I
really want is {-lu'} with {-laH}: {not tlhInganpu' *luvoqlaHlu'}.
[5] - The expressions we have for "I agree with him" all put all the
agreeing parties into the subject: {maQochbe' [ghaH jIH je]}, {wa' DoS
wIqIp [ghaH jIH je]}. However, Kirk and Cartwright are not being forced to
agree with each other; only Kirk is being forced to agree with Cartwright.
{DoS'e' qIpbogh *Cartwright* 'aj vIqIp} "I hit the target hit by Admiral
Cartwright" -- does this work as an obvious extension of {wa' DoS wIqIp}
but with the emphasis put on Kirk's role?
[6] - {vIqIp 'e' raDlu'} "I am compelled to hit (it)" I follow the example
of {Damuv 'e' wIvlu'} "You are chosen to join (it)" here. Or would {vIqIp
net raD} be less controversial?
[7] - How to translate "terrifying"? It's culturally taboo for Klingons to
express fear. Of course, a Federation officer is saying this line, so
maybe he can get away with saying something a Klingon would never say. Or
maybe I can use {ghIj} instead of {-vIp}: {qechvammo' ghIjqu'lu'}? I like
{-vIp} because it's underused, compared to {ghIj}.
> CARTWRIGHT: Negotiations for what?
> SPOCK: The dismantling of our space stations and starbases along the
> Neutral Zone, an end to almost seventy years of unremitting hostility
> with the Klingons, which the Klingons can no longer afford.
> MILITARY AIDE: Bill, are we talking about mothballing the Starfleet?
> C in C: I'm sure that our exploration and scientific programs would be
> unaffected, Captain, but...
> CARTWRIGHT: I must protest. To offer the Klingons a safe haven within
> Federation space is suicide. Klingons would become the alien trash of
> the galaxy. And if we dismantle the fleet, we'd be defenceless before
> an aggressive species with a foothold on our territory. The
> opportunity here is to bring them to their knees. Then we'll be in a
> far better position to dictate terms.
> KIRK: Sir!
> C in C: Captain Kirk?
> KIRK: The Klingons have never been trustworthy. I'm forced to agree
> with Admiral Cartwright. This is a terrifying idea.
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<p>Some very difficult lines in this part.=A0 </p>
<p>(CARTWRIGHT: nuq wISutlh?)<br>
SPOCK: neHmaH HeH retlhDaq tengchaHmeymaj 'ejyo'waw'meymaj je D=
Ilagh.=A0 tlhoS qaStaHvIS SochmaH DIS, maSuvchuqrupqu' tlhInganpu' =
maH je.=A0 Dor ghu'vam'e' luDIllaHbe'bogh tlhInganpu'.<=
br>
boQDu': *Bill*, 'ejyo' wIpujqu'moH 'e' wIchup'a=
'?<br>
C in C: malengbejtaH[1] 'ej maQulbejtaH, HoD, 'ach...<br>
CARTWRIGHT: jImorghnIS.=A0 DIvI' logh qoDDaq wunHa'choH tlhInganpu&=
#39; 'e' wIchaw'chugh vaj maHoH'egh.=A0 qIbDaq nov veQ lumo=
j tlhInganpu'.=A0 'ej 'ejyo' wIlaghchugh,=A0yermaj DanDI=
9; mut vaQ[2] maHub'eghlaHbe'.=A0 tormoHmeH 'eb 'oH 'eb=
vam'e'.=A0 ghIq mab wIqon 'e' wIpoQmeH HoSmaj QaQ law' =
HoSchaj QaQ puS.[3]<br>
KIRK: qaH!<br>
C in C: *qIrq* HoD?<br>
KIRK: not tlhInganpu' voqlaH vay'.[4]=A0 DoS'e' qIpbogh *Ca=
rtwright* 'aj vIqIp[5] 'e' raDlu'.[6]=A0 qechvam lajvIplu&#=
39;.[7]</p>
<p>[1] - I'm surprised there's no word for "explore", con=
sidering "to explore strange new worlds" and all that.<br>
[2] - Can {vaQ} be applied to {mut}?<br>
[3] - "Then we'll be in a far better position..."=A0 Better t=
han what?=A0 I don't know how to express a comparative in Klingon where=
the thing being compared to isn't specified.=A0 I've translated it=
as "we'll be in a better position than the Klingons", but I =
think Cartwright really means "we'll be in a better position than =
we are now".=A0 I'd written {ghIq HoSmaj QaQ law' DaH HoSmaj Q=
aQ puS}, but can the adverbials {ghIq} and {DaH} be used in this way?=A0 <b=
r>
[4] - Or should this be {reH tlhInganpu' voqlaH pagh}?=A0 Of course, wh=
at I really want is {-lu'} with {-laH}: {not tlhInganpu' *luvoqlaHl=
u'}.<br>
[5] - The expressions we have for "I agree with him" all put all =
the agreeing parties into the subject: {maQochbe' [ghaH jIH je]}, {wa&#=
39; DoS wIqIp [ghaH jIH je]}.=A0 However, Kirk and Cartwright are not being=
forced to agree with each other; only Kirk is being forced to agree with C=
artwright.=A0 {DoS'e' qIpbogh *Cartwright* 'aj vIqIp} "I h=
it the target hit by Admiral Cartwright" -- does this work as an obvio=
us extension of {wa' DoS wIqIp} but with the emphasis put on Kirk's=
role?<br>
[6] - {vIqIp 'e' raDlu'} "I am compelled to hit (it)"=
=A0 I follow the example of {Damuv 'e' wIvlu'} "You are ch=
osen to join (it)" here.=A0 Or would {vIqIp net raD} be less controver=
sial?<br>
[7] - How to translate "terrifying"?=A0 It's culturally taboo=
for Klingons to express fear.=A0 Of course, a Federation officer is saying=
this line, so maybe he can get away with saying something a Klingon would =
never say.=A0 Or maybe I can use {ghIj} instead of {-vIp}: {qechvammo' =
ghIjqu'lu'}?=A0 I like {-vIp} because it's underused, compared =
to {ghIj}.</p>
<p>> CARTWRIGHT: Negotiations for what?<br>
> SPOCK: The dismantling of our space stations and starbases along the<b=
r>
> Neutral Zone, an end to almost seventy years of unremitting hostility<=
br>
> with the Klingons, which the Klingons can no longer afford.<br>
> MILITARY AIDE: Bill, are we talking about mothballing the Starfleet?<b=
r>
> C in C: I'm sure that our exploration and scientific programs woul=
d be<br>
> unaffected, Captain, but...<br>
> CARTWRIGHT: I must protest. To offer the Klingons a safe haven within<=
br>
> Federation space is suicide. Klingons would become the alien trash of<=
br>
> the galaxy. And if we dismantle the fleet, we'd be defenceless bef=
ore<br>
> an aggressive species with a foothold on our territory. The<br>
> opportunity here is to bring them to their knees. Then we'll be in=
a<br>
> far better position to dictate terms.<br>
> KIRK: Sir!<br>
> C in C: Captain Kirk?<br>
> KIRK: The Klingons have never been trustworthy. I'm forced to agre=
e<br>
> with Admiral Cartwright. This is a terrifying idea.</p>
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