[91678] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Is {chach} also a verb?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (De'vID jonpIn)
Thu Jan 12 18:00:15 2012
In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmPnm1bh7xoBzP7POnF4XThLAhhq2DYEL02UNaVyNO3row@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 23:59:57 +0100
From: "De'vID jonpIn" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>
To: tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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Quvar:
> Qu'vatlh! - I used to believe I have all the HolQeD issues, but after
looking for it, I found out that this is one I never had :-(
>
> TKD just says chach (n) energency, both in KE and EK sides. KGT does not
have anything.
The list from HQ 1.3 is here:
http://klingonska.org/canon/1992-09-holqed-01-3.txt
auxiliary, backup ) {chach} [[):= ]] (= emergency [[emergency:=emergency )]]
I'm not entirely clear on the notation. I think it means that HQ 1.3 was
adding the meanings "auxiliary, backup" to the already known meaning of
"emergency".
Quvar:
> Theoretically, if it meant "backup", why must it precede tlham in a
noun-noun construction? Could this not be, literally, "backup of gravity",
i.e.
> "gravity's backup"
> {tlham chach}
This is how I'd interpret it as well. {tlham chach} "backup of gravity,
auxiliary [system or generator] of gravity". *{chach tlham} would be
"gravity of the backup, gravity of the auxiliary [system]", which sounds
like the gravity of a backup system, not a backup system for gravity.
Quvar:
> Or is this just one of those "look-up errors", using a wrong word in a
word-to -word translation? My webster's dictionary tells me that emergency
can be a noun and an adjective (a verb for klingons), and it is used as an
adjective in combinations like "emergency gravity". From that point of
view, with the example of {tlham chach}, it seems to be a verb.
>
> But I would like to see some better confirmation.
We recently learned that Klingons would call Earth ambulances {chach Duj}
if they saw them. My interpretation is that that in noun-noun
constructions where {chach} is one of the nouns, whether {chach} has the
sense of "auxiliary" or "emergency" (in English translation -- obviously
they're the same word to a Klingon) depends on whether it comes first or
second. Compare:
{chach Duj} "emergency vehicle, vehicle of emergency" - a vehicle used to
handle emergency situations, e.g., an ambulance or the like
{Duj chach} "backup (of) vehicle, auxiliary (of) vehicle" - a vehicle used
when (i.e., in the emergency event that) the primary vehicle is not
available, e.g., my crappy car that I don't use any more unless my newer
car is in the shop
But until a Klingon points to a backup vehicle and says {Duj chach}, this
is only speculation.
It looks like the belief that {chach} is a verb/adjective is an
opinion/interpretation only, and isn't unambiguously canonical. I'll note
that in my lexicon.
--
De'vID
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<p>Quvar:<br>
> Qu'vatlh! - I used to believe I have all the HolQeD issues, but af=
ter looking for it, I found out that this is one I never had :-(<br>
><br>
> TKD just says chach (n) energency, both in KE and EK sides. KGT does n=
ot have anything.</p>
<p>The list from HQ 1.3 is here:<br>
<a href=3D"http://klingonska.org/canon/1992-09-holqed-01-3.txt">http://klin=
gonska.org/canon/1992-09-holqed-01-3.txt</a></p>
<p>auxiliary, backup ) {chach} [[):=3D ]] (=3D emergency [[emergency:=3Deme=
rgency )]]</p>
<p>I'm not entirely clear on the notation.=A0 I think it means that HQ =
1.3 was adding the meanings "auxiliary, backup" to the already kn=
own meaning of "emergency".</p>
<p>Quvar:<br>
> Theoretically, if it meant "backup", why must it precede tlh=
am in a noun-noun construction? Could this not be, literally, "backup =
of gravity", i.e.<br>
> =A0"gravity's backup"<br>
> =A0{tlham chach}</p>
<p>This is how I'd interpret it as well.=A0 {tlham chach} "backup =
of gravity, auxiliary [system or generator] of gravity".=A0 *{chach tl=
ham} would be "gravity of the backup, gravity of the auxiliary [system=
]", which sounds like the gravity of a backup system, not a backup sys=
tem for gravity.</p>
<p>Quvar:<br>
> Or is this just one of those "look-up errors", using a wrong=
word in a word-to -word translation? My webster's dictionary tells me =
that emergency can be a noun and an adjective (a verb for klingons), and it=
is used as an adjective in combinations like "emergency gravity"=
. From that point of view, with the example of {tlham chach}, it seems to b=
e a verb.<br>
><br>
> But I would like to see some better confirmation.</p>
<p>We recently learned that Klingons would call Earth ambulances {chach Duj=
} if they saw them.=A0 My interpretation is that that in noun-noun construc=
tions where {chach} is one of the nouns, whether {chach} has the sense of &=
quot;auxiliary" or "emergency" (in English translation -- ob=
viously they're the same word to a Klingon) depends on whether it comes=
first or second.=A0 Compare:</p>
<p>{chach Duj} "emergency vehicle, vehicle of emergency" - a vehi=
cle used to handle emergency situations, e.g., an ambulance or the like<br>
{Duj chach} "backup (of) vehicle, auxiliary (of) vehicle" - a veh=
icle used when (i.e., in the emergency event that) the primary vehicle is n=
ot available, e.g., my crappy car that I don't use any more unless my n=
ewer car is in the shop</p>
<p>But until a Klingon points to a backup vehicle and says {Duj chach}, thi=
s is only speculation. </p>
<p>It looks like the belief that {chach} is a verb/adjective is an opinion/=
interpretation only, and isn't unambiguously canonical.=A0 I'll not=
e that in my lexicon.=A0 </p>
<p>--<br>
De'vID</p>
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