[91593] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] nuq bop bom: 'ay' wa'vatlh wa'maH chorgh:
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmIt tI'wI'nuv)
Sun Jan 8 09:51:59 2012
From: lojmIt tI'wI'nuv <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmOe1MANxFX0XUp_9J8Rf2VqG2xh5WwGEH1eoosBEuUA0A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 09:51:30 -0500
To: "tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org" <tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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{chuS} doesn't mean "make noise". It means "be noisy". A room can be noisy w=
ithout making any noise. Any place that an observer would be in, noting nois=
e, is a noisy place.=20
Sent from my iPod
On Jan 7, 2012, at 5:02 AM, "De'vID jonpIn" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:=
>=20
> Qov:
> > latlh raSDaq Sup ghutar, jatlh =E2=80=9Cwot'av, torgh puqloD! batlh qelD=
I' tlhIngan, lumbe'. Do'Ha' DaHjaj betleHwIj'e' vInaw'laHbe'. wa' munojqangc=
hugh vay', DaH qaHay'.=E2=80=9D
>=20
> Does {Hay'} take an object? I thought it was one of those verbs where all=
the participants are in the subject (like {ghom}), but I didn't find any ca=
non evidence to back up my intuition.
>=20
> Qov:
> > chuSqu'choH SopwI'pa'.
>=20
> Is it the {SopwI'pa'} itself that's beginning to be noisy, or something in=
side it? This is just a stylistic preference, but I'd have written {chuSqu'=
choH SopwI'pa' qoD} or {SopwI'pa'Daq chuSqu'choHlu'}. {chuSqu'choH SopwI'pa=
'} sounds to me like the mess hall itself is making noise. (This may very w=
ell be an acceptable way of saying that something inside the mess hall is ma=
king noise, like it is in English, but I'm not sure.)
>=20
> Compare:
> {chuSqu'choH jonta' pa'; Qom tlhoy'mey}
> {jonta' pa'Daq chuSqu'choHlu'; yay lulop jonwI'pu'}
>=20
> Maybe I'm taking things too literally.
>=20
> Qov:
> > qevDaq chen gho chIm 'ej 'oHDaq QamtaH ghutar, wot'avHey[78].=20
> > [78] Any comments on this as =E2=80=9Cthe guy who seemed to be wot'av=E2=
=80=9D?
>=20
> DIp 'oHbe' {qev}'e'. {ghom'a'} DaHechlaw'.
>=20
> wot'avHey vIyaj 'ej vIlaj.
>=20
> Qov:
> > jatlh Hota'ro', =E2=80=9Cnach DopDaq rIQ. So' jIbDaj.=E2=80=9D
>=20
> Qov:
> > =E2=80=9Clu' qaH,=E2=80=9D jatlh 'avwI' 'ej vay' rI'. loSmeH 'avwI' retl=
hDaq chobDaq [161] Qam vajar. tugh paw wochbogh 'avwI' tIn. SopwI'pa'vaD jat=
lh vajar, =E2=80=9CHa'! Hota'ro', HItlhej!=E2=80=9D=20
> > [161] Who requires a je here? I feel happy without it.
>=20
> Do we have any canon of two {-Daq}ed nouns side by side like this? The en=
tire sentence is somewhat ambiguous and confusing to to me. Is the {chob} n=
ext to the {'avwI'}, or is {vajar} (who is standing in a {chob}) next to the=
{'avwI'}? Is the {'avwI'} also inside the {chob}? What's the subject of {=
loSmeH}? I think it's {vajar}, but initially I thought it was {'avwI'} unti=
l I got to the end of the sentence. If it is {vajar}, I'd write {loSmeH vaj=
ar, 'avwI'...}.
>=20
> --
> De'vID
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>{chuS} doesn't mean "make n=
oise". It means "be noisy". A room can be noisy without making any noise. An=
y place that an observer would be in, noting noise, is a noisy place. <=
br><div><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div>Sent from my iPod</div>=
<div><br>On Jan 7, 2012, at 5:02 AM, "De'vID jonpIn" <<a href=3D"mailto:d=
e.vid.jonpin@gmail.com">de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div>=
<div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><p><br>
Qov:<br>
> latlh raSDaq Sup ghutar, jatlh =E2=80=9Cwot'av, torgh puqloD! batlh qel=
DI' tlhIngan, lumbe'. Do'Ha' DaHjaj betleHwIj'e' vInaw'laHbe'. wa' munojqang=
chugh vay', DaH qaHay'.=E2=80=9D </p>
<p>Does {Hay'} take an object? I thought it was one of those verbs whe=
re all the participants are in the subject (like {ghom}), but I didn't find a=
ny canon evidence to back up my intuition.</p>
<p>Qov:<br>
> chuSqu'choH SopwI'pa'. </p>
<p>Is it the {SopwI'pa'} itself that's beginning to be noisy, or something i=
nside it? This is just a stylistic preference, but I'd have written {c=
huSqu'choH SopwI'pa' qoD} or {SopwI'pa'Daq chuSqu'choHlu'}. {chuSqu'ch=
oH SopwI'pa'} sounds to me like the mess hall itself is making noise. (=
This may very well be an acceptable way of saying that something inside the m=
ess hall is making noise, like it is in English, but I'm not sure.)</p>
<p>Compare:<br>
{chuSqu'choH jonta' pa'; Qom tlhoy'mey}<br>
{jonta' pa'Daq chuSqu'choHlu'; yay lulop jonwI'pu'}</p>
<p>Maybe I'm taking things too literally.</p>
<p>Qov:<br>
> qevDaq chen gho chIm 'ej 'oHDaq QamtaH ghutar, wot'avHey[78]. <br>
> [78] Any comments on this as =E2=80=9Cthe guy who seemed to be wot'av=E2=
=80=9D?</p>
<p>DIp 'oHbe' {qev}'e'. {ghom'a'} DaHechlaw'.</p>
<p>wot'avHey vIyaj 'ej vIlaj.</p>
<p>Qov:<br>
> jatlh Hota'ro', =E2=80=9Cnach DopDaq rIQ. So' jIbDaj.=E2=80=9D</p>
<p>Qov:<br>
> =E2=80=9Clu' qaH,=E2=80=9D jatlh 'avwI' 'ej vay' rI'. loSmeH 'avwI' ret=
lhDaq chobDaq [161] Qam vajar. tugh paw wochbogh 'avwI' tIn. SopwI'pa'vaD ja=
tlh vajar, =E2=80=9CHa'! Hota'ro', HItlhej!=E2=80=9D <br>
> [161] Who requires a je here? I feel happy without it.</p>
<p>Do we have any canon of two {-Daq}ed nouns side by side like this? T=
he entire sentence is somewhat ambiguous and confusing to to me. Is th=
e {chob} next to the {'avwI'}, or is {vajar} (who is standing in a {chob}) n=
ext to the {'avwI'}? Is the {'avwI'} also inside the {chob}? Wha=
t's the subject of {loSmeH}? I think it's {vajar}, but initially I tho=
ught it was {'avwI'} until I got to the end of the sentence. If it is {=
vajar}, I'd write {loSmeH vajar, 'avwI'...}.</p>
<p>--<br>
De'vID</p>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________=
___________________________</span><br><span>Tlhingan-hol mailing list</span>=
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hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org</a></span><br><span><a href=3D"http://stodi.dig=
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rg/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></h=
tml>=
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