[91583] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] nuq bop bom: 'ay' wa'vatlh wa'maH chorgh:
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (De'vID jonpIn)
Sat Jan 7 05:02:17 2012
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 11:02:01 +0100
From: "De'vID jonpIn" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>
To: tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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Qov:
> latlh raSDaq Sup ghutar, jatlh =93wot'av, torgh puqloD! batlh qelDI'
tlhIngan, lumbe'. Do'Ha' DaHjaj betleHwIj'e' vInaw'laHbe'. wa'
munojqangchugh vay', DaH qaHay'.=94
Does {Hay'} take an object? I thought it was one of those verbs where all
the participants are in the subject (like {ghom}), but I didn't find any
canon evidence to back up my intuition.
Qov:
> chuSqu'choH SopwI'pa'.
Is it the {SopwI'pa'} itself that's beginning to be noisy, or something
inside it? This is just a stylistic preference, but I'd have written
{chuSqu'choH SopwI'pa' qoD} or {SopwI'pa'Daq chuSqu'choHlu'}. {chuSqu'choH
SopwI'pa'} sounds to me like the mess hall itself is making noise. (This
may very well be an acceptable way of saying that something inside the mess
hall is making noise, like it is in English, but I'm not sure.)
Compare:
{chuSqu'choH jonta' pa'; Qom tlhoy'mey}
{jonta' pa'Daq chuSqu'choHlu'; yay lulop jonwI'pu'}
Maybe I'm taking things too literally.
Qov:
> qevDaq chen gho chIm 'ej 'oHDaq QamtaH ghutar, wot'avHey[78].
> [78] Any comments on this as =93the guy who seemed to be wot'av=94?
DIp 'oHbe' {qev}'e'. {ghom'a'} DaHechlaw'.
wot'avHey vIyaj 'ej vIlaj.
Qov:
> jatlh Hota'ro', =93nach DopDaq rIQ. So' jIbDaj.=94
Qov:
> =93lu' qaH,=94 jatlh 'avwI' 'ej vay' rI'. loSmeH 'avwI' retlhDaq chobDaq
[161] Qam vajar. tugh paw wochbogh 'avwI' tIn. SopwI'pa'vaD jatlh vajar,
=93Ha'! Hota'ro', HItlhej!=94
> [161] Who requires a je here? I feel happy without it.
Do we have any canon of two {-Daq}ed nouns side by side like this? The
entire sentence is somewhat ambiguous and confusing to to me. Is the
{chob} next to the {'avwI'}, or is {vajar} (who is standing in a {chob})
next to the {'avwI'}? Is the {'avwI'} also inside the {chob}? What's the
subject of {loSmeH}? I think it's {vajar}, but initially I thought it was
{'avwI'} until I got to the end of the sentence. If it is {vajar}, I'd
write {loSmeH vajar, 'avwI'...}.
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De'vID
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<p><br>
Qov:<br>
> latlh raSDaq Sup ghutar, jatlh =93wot'av, torgh puqloD! batlh qelD=
I' tlhIngan, lumbe'. Do'Ha' DaHjaj betleHwIj'e' vIn=
aw'laHbe'. wa' munojqangchugh vay', DaH qaHay'.=94 </p>
<p>Does {Hay'} take an object?=A0 I thought it was one of those verbs w=
here all the participants are in the subject (like {ghom}), but I didn'=
t find any canon evidence to back up my intuition.</p>
<p>Qov:<br>
> chuSqu'choH SopwI'pa'. </p>
<p>Is it the {SopwI'pa'} itself that's beginning to be noisy, o=
r something inside it?=A0 This is just a stylistic preference, but I'd =
have written {chuSqu'choH SopwI'pa' qoD} or {SopwI'pa'D=
aq chuSqu'choHlu'}.=A0 {chuSqu'choH SopwI'pa'} sounds t=
o me like the mess hall itself is making noise.=A0 (This may very well be a=
n acceptable way of saying that something inside the mess hall is making no=
ise, like it is in English, but I'm not sure.)</p>
<p>Compare:<br>
{chuSqu'choH jonta' pa'; Qom tlhoy'mey}<br>
{jonta' pa'Daq chuSqu'choHlu'; yay lulop jonwI'pu'}=
</p>
<p>Maybe I'm taking things too literally.</p>
<p>Qov:<br>
> qevDaq chen gho chIm 'ej 'oHDaq QamtaH ghutar, wot'avHey[7=
8]. <br>
> [78] Any comments on this as =93the guy who seemed to be wot'av=94=
?</p>
<p>DIp 'oHbe' {qev}'e'.=A0 {ghom'a'} DaHechlaw'=
.</p>
<p>wot'avHey vIyaj 'ej vIlaj.</p>
<p>Qov:<br>
> jatlh Hota'ro', =93nach DopDaq rIQ. So' jIbDaj.=94</p>
<p>Qov:<br>
> =93lu' qaH,=94 jatlh 'avwI' 'ej vay' rI'. loSm=
eH 'avwI' retlhDaq chobDaq [161] Qam vajar. tugh paw wochbogh '=
avwI' tIn. SopwI'pa'vaD jatlh vajar, =93Ha'! Hota'ro=
9;, HItlhej!=94 <br>
> [161] Who requires a je here? I feel happy without it.</p>
<p>Do we have any canon of two {-Daq}ed nouns side by side like this?=A0 Th=
e entire sentence is somewhat ambiguous and confusing to to me.=A0 Is the {=
chob} next to the {'avwI'}, or is {vajar} (who is standing in a {ch=
ob}) next to the {'avwI'}?=A0 Is the {'avwI'} also inside t=
he {chob}?=A0 What's the subject of {loSmeH}?=A0 I think it's {vaja=
r}, but initially I thought it was {'avwI'} until I got to the end =
of the sentence.=A0 If it is {vajar}, I'd write {loSmeH vajar, 'avw=
I'...}.</p>
<p>--<br>
De'vID</p>
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