daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmIt tI'wI'nuv)
Fri Jan 6 07:05:32 2012
From: lojmIt tI'wI'nuv <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <BAY166-W247EA589166B7F2E0E3C10AA950@phx.gbl>
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 07:04:52 -0500
To: "<tlhingan-hol@kli.org>" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
It's interesting that everyone is using movie dialog which is obviously supposed to be badly formed dialectic, back-country Klingon as the canon example that's supposed to clarify whether or not the direct object of {ghoS} should be {nuq} or {nuqDaq}.
I'd suggest that the direct object of {ghoS} can never be a locative. If it were, it would be the only verb in the language to do that. This is simply not what locatives do in Klingon language.
Normally, the direct object is a noun, and you simply know that the feature of interest of the noun is its location when it is the direct object of this verb.
You may choose to use a location as the direct object, but not in locative form. You'd need an all-important space between the noun and the {Daq} following it. The following might be as grammatically correct as {nuq DaghoS}, though it would be as redundant and unnecessary as "The Moon orbits around the Earth," instead of the better formed, "The Moon orbits the Earth.":
nuq Daq DaghoS?
Meanwhile, this looks a lot like early attempts at forming the question word "which". This grammatical form was rejected in favor of the command:
Daq DaghoSbogh yIngu'!
So, I suggest once again that the simplest, best form of this question is:
nuq DaghoS?
Sent from my iPod
On Jan 6, 2012, at 12:04 AM, Rohan F <qeslagh@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> ghItlhpu' De'vID, jatlh:
>> Which captions? I'll have to haul out my DVD to watch it again, but I
>> don't recall seeing {nuq DaghoS}, and I think I would've noticed since
>> it would've surprised me.
>
> Me too. By a happy coincidence I just watched ST6 again a few days ago and
> though I didn't have the captions on, I'm sure I heard {nuqDaq ghoS}.
> Though it's Clipped Klingon, the following sentence is clearly Morskan
> {ghewmey SuqQo'}, which is also clipped.
>
> Also, the sentence containing {ghoS} follows the atrocious Klingon response
> by Uhura, which is largely unintelligible but which clearly begins with the
> phrase {*Ursva maH} "we are the [ship] Ursva". Given that the pronoun is
> {maH}, I think if the Klingon's response to Uhura contained any prefix it
> would've been {bo-}.
>
>> (It was the same television I on which I watched Captain Klaa shout
>> {HIvHe choHmoH!} during a different visit. From that I learned that
>> {choHmoH} means to change something else, thus {choH} would mean to
>> become different.)
>
> Intriguing. From {woj choHwI'} and {HoS choHwI'} I'd assumed that {choH}
> was to change something else, so if something changed on its own, then it
> was {choHlu'}. I don't think I have any of the actual phrases from ST5 -
> maybe I should hurry up and watch it!
>
> QeS 'utlh
>
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