[91514] in tlhIngan-Hol
[Tlhingan-hol] On the word {tlho'} and its kin
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Mon Jan 2 05:58:07 2012
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: "tlhIngan-Hol@KLI.org" <tlhIngan-Hol@KLI.org>
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 10:57:42 +0000
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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I've been thinking: We humans are all very used to expressing our emotions =
through words. If we are grateful, we say "Thank you!". If we are sorry, we=
say "I'm sorry."
Words are so powerful that we are sometimes afraid to utter them, or worry =
what will happen if we don't. Case in point: "I love you."
Indeed, words are so valuable to us that they can be claimed in penance: Yo=
u can demand an apology of somebody, and a court can even sentence you to m=
ake a public apology.
Klingons have their own ritual words, for example in the case of qa'meH vIt=
tlheghmey and peghmey vIttlheghmey.
In general, though, Klingons are known to be more action-oriented. Indeed, =
the last time I checked my copy of TKW, the proverb {bI'IQchugh, yab Qel yI=
Such.} wasn't in there, and in PK, Worf explicitly states that Klingons don=
't say "Excuse me" or "Thank you". {nughpu' pIm, tIghmey pIm.}
Indeed, MO has stated many times that Klingons don't say {qatlho'}, and I g=
uess we shouldn't be surprised. After all, what function does this word act=
ually serve? If you really NEED to state satisfaction explicitly, there's a=
lready the word {maj}, not to mention verbs such as {Quch} and {bel}.
I've been thinking, therefore: What if the word {tlho'} refers to something=
more than just uttering a ritualized set of words? What if it actually ref=
ers to repaying somebody's honorable actions, not because it is demanded of=
one but because one feels gratitude towards them?
When somebody does something towards you that merit gratitude, you might as=
k {chay' qatlho'laH} ("How can I thank you?") or {qatlho'nIS}** ("I must th=
ank you"). If one DID say simply {qatlho'}, it would be to say "I will do s=
omething to thank you"; it would be a promise of an act to come, not the ac=
t itself.
One might also say something like {ghaH vItlho'meH ghaHvaD targhwIj nIvqu' =
vInob}; "I shall give him my finest targ as thanks".
{DutoDbogh tera'nganvaD qagh Danobchugh, Datlho'Ha'.} - "Giving a Terran ga=
gh is a poor way of thanking her for saving your life."
{tlho'meH targh} - "thank you targ" ('cuz thank you cards are for weaklings=
)
...or perhaps {tlho'} really DOES refer to being in a grateful state, in wh=
ich case one might imagine it being used in such sentences as {vavlI' vItlh=
o'mo' ghojwI'wI' Damoj 'e' vIlaj.} ("I accept you as my pupil because I owe=
a debt of gratitude to your father.") or {bItlho'chugh yIvang!} ("If you a=
re grateful, act!"). The phrase {qatlho'} would then be interpreted as "I a=
m grateful towards you", with the implication that one intends to repay the=
addressee; again, it is a promise of an act to come, not the act itself.
In this case, {tlho'Ha'} would not mean "to thank somebody badly", and perh=
aps it wouldn't even mean "to be ungrateful" in the way that we understand =
it, but rather "to be possessed of misplaced gratitude", or perhaps "to hav=
e repaid one's debt of gratitude".
{ghaH vItlho'Ha'choHmeH ghaHvaD targhwIj nIvqu' vInob.} - "In order to beco=
me ungrateful towards her, I shall give her my finest targ."
{*je'raD* tuq tlho'Ha'mo' tlhIngan yejquv woQ'a' 'oHtaH DuraS tuq'e'.} - "B=
ecause the Klingon High Council has a misplaced sense of gratitude towards =
Ja'rod, it remains a political powerhouse."
{mutoDDI' vItlho'choH 'ej vItoDDI' vItlho'Ha'choH.} - "I became grateful to=
wards him when he saved my life, and became ungrateful when I saved his.")
{mutoDDI' vItlho'choH 'ach vavwI' chotDI' vItlho'Ha'.} - "I became grateful=
towards her when she saved my life, but lost my gratitude when she murdere=
d my father.}
{vay' DaSeHchu'meH SoHvaD Datlho'nISmoH.} - "To truly control somebody, mak=
e them grateful towards you.}
{vay' vItlho'lI'chugh reH jIbelHa'.} - "I can never be satisfied as long as=
I have an unpaid debt of gratitude."
{reH tlho'taH qoH neH.} - "Only fools are possessed with undying gratitude.=
"
One might also imagine the NOUN {tlho'} taking on a somewhat different role=
from its English counterparts. While "gratitude" is a feeling that normall=
y persists even after the feeling of debt has subsided, and is often regard=
ed as a positive feeling, perhaps {tlho'} is more of a need which subsides =
once it has been satisfied.
{may'Daq mutoDDI' muDuQ tlho''a' 'a ngugh wa'ben latlh may'Daq ghaH vItoD. =
vaj vItlho' rIntaH.} - "I was struck with great gratitude when he/sje saved=
me in battle, but one year hence I saved him/her in another battle. Thus, =
my gratitude towards him/her is complete."
What do y'all think? How should the word {tlho'}? What of other words - suc=
h as {Hoy'} ("to congratulate"), {QoS} ("to be sorry") and {tlhIj} ("to apo=
logize") - which Terrans have evolved rituals around?
**...to which one might respond {chotlho' net poQbe'} or {chotlho' 'e' vIpo=
Qbe'}, but not {chotlho'nISbe'}. If I understand it correctly, -nIS refers =
to a need on the part of the subject, not one imposed by others.
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I've been thinking: We humans are all very used to expressing our emotions =
through words. If we are grateful, we say "Thank you!". If we are=
sorry, we say "I'm sorry."<br>
Words are so powerful that we are sometimes afraid to utter them, or worry =
what will happen if we don't. Case in point: "I love you."<br>
Indeed, words are so valuable to us that they can be claimed in penance: Yo=
u can demand an apology of somebody, and a court can even sentence you to m=
ake a public apology.<br>
<br>
Klingons have their own ritual words, for example in the case of qa'meH vIt=
tlheghmey and peghmey vIttlheghmey.<br>
In general, though, Klingons are known to be more action-oriented. Indeed, =
the last time I checked my copy of TKW, the proverb {bI'IQchugh, yab Qel yI=
Such.} wasn't in there, and in PK, Worf explicitly states that Klingons don=
't say "Excuse me" or "Thank you".
{nughpu' pIm, tIghmey pIm.}<br>
Indeed, MO has stated many times that Klingons don't say {qatlho'}, and I g=
uess we shouldn't be surprised. After all, what function does this word act=
ually serve? If you really NEED to state satisfaction explicitly, there's a=
lready the word {maj}, not to mention
verbs such as {Quch} and {bel}.<br>
I've been thinking, therefore: What if the word {tlho'} refers to something=
more than just uttering a ritualized set of words? What if it actually ref=
ers to repaying somebody's honorable actions, not because it is demanded of=
one but because one feels gratitude
towards them?<br>
<br>
When somebody does something towards you that merit gratitude, you might as=
k {chay' qatlho'laH} ("How can I thank you?") or {qatlho'nIS}** (=
"I must thank you"). If one DID say simply {qatlho'}, it would be=
to say "I will do something to thank you"; it would
be a promise of an act to come, not the act itself.<br>
One might also say something like {ghaH vItlho'meH ghaHvaD targhwIj nIvqu' =
vInob}; "I shall give him my finest targ as thanks".<br>
{DutoDbogh tera'nganvaD qagh Danobchugh, Datlho'Ha'.} - "Giving a Terr=
an gagh is a poor way of thanking her for saving your life."<br>
{tlho'meH targh} - "thank you targ" ('cuz thank you cards are for=
weaklings)<br>
<br>
...or perhaps {tlho'} really DOES refer to being in a grateful state, in wh=
ich case one might imagine it being used in such sentences as {vavlI' vItlh=
o'mo' ghojwI'wI' Damoj 'e' vIlaj.} ("I accept you as my pupil because =
I owe a debt of gratitude to your father.")
or {bItlho'chugh yIvang!} ("If you are grateful, act!"). The phr=
ase {qatlho'} would then be interpreted as "I am grateful towards you&=
quot;, with the implication that one intends to repay the addressee; again,=
it is a promise of an act to come, not the act itself.<br>
In this case, {tlho'Ha'} would not mean "to thank somebody badly"=
, and perhaps it wouldn't even mean "to be ungrateful" in the way=
that we understand it, but rather "to be possessed of misplaced grati=
tude", or perhaps "to have repaid one's debt of gratitude".<=
br>
{ghaH vItlho'Ha'choHmeH ghaHvaD targhwIj nIvqu' vInob.} - "In order to=
become ungrateful towards her, I shall give her my finest targ."<br>
{*je'raD* tuq tlho'Ha'mo' tlhIngan yejquv woQ'a' 'oHtaH DuraS tuq'e'.} - &q=
uot;Because the Klingon High Council has a misplaced sense of gratitude tow=
ards Ja'rod, it remains a political powerhouse."<br>
{mutoDDI' vItlho'choH 'ej vItoDDI' vItlho'Ha'choH.} - "I became gratef=
ul towards him when he saved my life, and became ungrateful when I saved hi=
s.")<br>
{mutoDDI' vItlho'choH 'ach vavwI' chotDI' vItlho'Ha'.} - "I became gra=
teful towards her when she saved my life, but lost my gratitude when she mu=
rdered my father.}<br>
{vay' DaSeHchu'meH SoHvaD Datlho'nISmoH.} - "To truly control somebody=
, make them grateful towards you.}<br>
{vay' vItlho'lI'chugh reH jIbelHa'.} - "I can never be satisfied as lo=
ng as I have an unpaid debt of gratitude."<br>
{reH tlho'taH qoH neH.} - "Only fools are possessed with undying grati=
tude."<br>
<br>
One might also imagine the NOUN {tlho'} taking on a somewhat different role=
from its English counterparts. While "gratitude" is a feeling th=
at normally persists even after the feeling of debt has subsided, and is of=
ten regarded as a positive feeling, perhaps
{tlho'} is more of a need which subsides once it has been satisfied.<br>
{may'Daq mutoDDI' muDuQ tlho''a' 'a ngugh wa'ben latlh may'Daq ghaH vItoD. =
vaj vItlho' rIntaH.} - "I was struck with great gratitude when he/sje =
saved me in battle, but one year hence I saved him/her in another battle. T=
hus, my gratitude towards him/her is
complete."<br>
<br>
What do y'all think? How should the word {tlho'}? What of other words - suc=
h as {Hoy'} ("to congratulate"), {QoS} ("to be sorry") =
and {tlhIj} ("to apologize") - which Terrans have evolved rituals=
around?<br>
<br>
**...to which one might respond {chotlho' net poQbe'} or {chotlho' 'e' vIpo=
Qbe'}, but not {chotlho'nISbe'}. If I understand it correctly, -nIS refers =
to a need on the part of the subject, not one imposed by others.<br>
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