[91299] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] QangHom
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (De'vID jonpIn)
Fri Dec 16 03:12:28 2011
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 09:12:12 +0100
From: "De'vID jonpIn" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>
To: tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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Qov:
> > Interesting. It really looks here as though those that sit at the table
and
> > decide policy are all {tlhIngan yejquv DevwI'pu'}. Leaders of the
Empire, as
> > it were. This will work for me, as I can then use DevwI' as a title, {vu
> > DevwI'}
Philip Newton:
> On the other hand, consider this from KGT (p. 53):
>
> Finally, a student may be described as a {mangHom} ("cadet"), but
> {mangHom} is not an official title. One should not say, for example,
> {qImlaq mangHom} ("Cadet K'mlak").
>
> So I'm not sure whether nouns can automatically be used as titles.
Especially a noun like {DevwI'} formed from a verb. {vu DevwI'} looks to
me like "Foo's leader, Foo's guide", not "Leader Foo, Guide Foo". Of
course, this is a problem with apposition in Klingon in general.
But why should the indicator of membership in the {yejquv} be a noun? I
would not be surprised if it were a verb such as {quv}: {vu quv} "Honored
Foo", "Foo of the {yejquv}". (Of course, "honored" is such an overused
concept in Klingon.) Or, why should the councillor's relation to the
{yejquv} place the emphasis on the councillor rather than the council?
Perhaps Councillor Foo is referred to as {yejquv vu} "the High Council's
Foo, Foo of the High Council"
Qov:
> >> I tend to use {qup} "elder" for this (especially for "senator"); cp.
> >> {quprIp} "Council of Elders". I don't know if {qup} refers to an
honored,
> >> traditional leader or just someone elderly.
Philip Newton:
> Given that it's the "opposite" of {puq} "child", I had always assumed
> that it referred to anyone older.
But surely, a {quprIp} is a council not just of elderly people, but of
elderly people who are distinguished in some way. The word {quprIp} is a
direct translation into Klingon of the Organian "Council of Elders", who
make decisions concerning the governance of Organia.
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<p><br>
Qov:<br>
> > Interesting. It really looks here as though those that sit at the=
table and<br>
> > decide policy are all {tlhIngan yejquv DevwI'pu'}. Leader=
s of the Empire, as<br>
> > it were. This will work for me, as I can then use DevwI' as a=
title, {vu<br>
> > DevwI'}</p>
<p>Philip Newton:<br>
> On the other hand, consider this from KGT (p. 53):<br>
><br>
> Finally, a student may be described as a {mangHom} ("cadet")=
, but<br>
> {mangHom} is not an official title. One should not say, for example,<b=
r>
> {qImlaq mangHom} ("Cadet K'mlak").<br>
><br>
> So I'm not sure whether nouns can automatically be used as titles.=
</p>
<p>Especially a noun like {DevwI'} formed from a verb.=A0 {vu DevwI'=
;} looks to me like "Foo's leader, Foo's guide", not &quo=
t;Leader Foo, Guide Foo".=A0 Of course, this is a problem with apposit=
ion in Klingon in general.</p>
<p>But why should the indicator of membership in the {yejquv} be a noun?=A0=
I would not be surprised if it were a verb such as {quv}: {vu quv} "H=
onored Foo", "Foo of the {yejquv}".=A0 (Of course, "hon=
ored" is such an overused concept in Klingon.)=A0 Or, why should the c=
ouncillor's relation to the {yejquv} place the emphasis on the councill=
or rather than the council?=A0 Perhaps Councillor Foo is referred to as {ye=
jquv vu} "the High Council's Foo, Foo of the High Council"</p=
>
<p>Qov:<br>
> >> I tend to use {qup} "elder" for this (especially fo=
r "senator"); cp.<br>
> >> {quprIp} "Council of Elders". =A0I don't know i=
f {qup} refers to an honored,<br>
> >> traditional leader or just someone elderly.</p>
<p>Philip Newton:<br>
> Given that it's the "opposite" of {puq} "child"=
;, I had always assumed<br>
> that it referred to anyone older.</p>
<p>But surely, a {quprIp} is a council not just of elderly people, but of e=
lderly people who are distinguished in some way.=A0 The word {quprIp} is a =
direct translation into Klingon of the Organian "Council of Elders&quo=
t;, who make decisions concerning the governance of Organia.</p>
<p>--<br>
De'vID</p>
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