[91061] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Noun cases
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmIt tI'wI'nuv)
Wed Nov 30 10:13:02 2011
From: lojmIt tI'wI'nuv <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:12:36 -0500
In-Reply-To: <CA+cwSm9JZu4RqtV=BaJ7VWZ2=NgJyAb47VPQiuPkbH-KicpgvA@mail.gmail.com>
To: tlhIngan Hol email discussion forum <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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You fell into one of those little traps that Okrand left for us. =
*puqmey* does not mean "children scattered all about". The only example =
Okrand gave us was {tlhonmey} for "nostrils scattered all about". So, =
body parts with the "can't use language" plural form imply "scattered =
all about". That's the only violation of noun gender that has a poetic =
meaning in Klingon. Any other violation is simply ungrammatical without =
meaning.
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
On Nov 30, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Philip Newton wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 15:13, David Trimboli <david@trimboli.name> =
wrote:
>> On 11/30/2011 8:20 AM, Michael Everson wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Klingon doesn't have declensions; it's agglutinative.
>>=20
>> Agglutination and declension are mutually exclusive? Isn't the =
inflection of
>> a noun by agglutinative suffixes a declension?
>=20
> Also, if we take "declension" to be "declension class" (as in "the
> Latin fourth declension"), Klingon arguably has that, too... three
> noun classes, each with its own separate form of the plural marker
> -mey -Du' -pu'. And with each noun belonging to a specific class,
> yielding things such as {jIb Ho'Du'} even though the teeth of a comb
> are not (usually...) a body part.
>=20
> But then there is {tIqpu'}, and the "scattered all about" of {puqmey}
> and the like, which makes such a Latinate analysis messy.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Philip
> --=20
> Philip Newton <philip.newton@gmail.com>
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">You =
fell into one of those little traps that Okrand left for us. *puqmey* =
does not mean "children scattered all about". The only example Okrand =
gave us was {tlhonmey} for "nostrils scattered all about". So, body =
parts with the "can't use language" plural form imply "scattered all =
about". That's the only violation of noun gender that has a poetic =
meaning in Klingon. Any other violation is simply ungrammatical without =
meaning.<div><br><div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; =
"><div>pItlh</div><div>lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div><br></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On Nov 30, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Philip Newton =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 15:13, David Trimboli <<a =
href=3D"mailto:david@trimboli.name">david@trimboli.name</a>> =
wrote:<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On 11/30/2011 8:20 AM, Michael =
Everson wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Klingon doesn't have =
declensions; it's =
agglutinative.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Agglutination =
and declension are mutually exclusive? Isn't the inflection =
of<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">a noun by agglutinative =
suffixes a declension?<br></blockquote><br>Also, if we take "declension" =
to be "declension class" (as in "the<br>Latin fourth declension"), =
Klingon arguably has that, too... three<br>noun classes, each with its =
own separate form of the plural marker<br>-mey -Du' -pu'. And with each =
noun belonging to a specific class,<br>yielding things such as {jIb =
Ho'Du'} even though the teeth of a comb<br>are not (usually...) a body =
part.<br><br>But then there is {tIqpu'}, and the "scattered all about" =
of {puqmey}<br>and the like, which makes such a Latinate analysis =
messy.<br><br>Cheers,<br>Philip<br>-- <br>Philip Newton <<a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.newton@gmail.com">philip.newton@gmail.com</a>><br=
><br>_______________________________________________<br>Tlhingan-hol =
mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org">Tlhingan-hol@stodi.d=
igitalkingdom.org</a><br>http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/=
tlhingan-hol<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=
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