[90990] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] paq'batlh: COMPARING ADVERBS
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmIt tI'wI'nuv)
Mon Nov 28 14:22:28 2011
From: lojmIt tI'wI'nuv <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 14:22:07 -0500
In-Reply-To: <COL124-W370E8293DC4A7C12645868F2CC0@phx.gbl>
To: tlhIngan Hol email discussion forum <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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It would be nice to have an actual description of the grammatical rules =
here instead of what feels like a presumptive leap based upon a single =
canon example in a work that others describe as being full of typos and =
other errors. In your example below, I'd have expected {QIt tlhIngan Hol =
Dajatlh. QIt tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhqu'.} I don't understand why the prefix =
would not indicate a direct object.
Anyway, this opens the question of why the {-qu'} applied to the verb =
apparently adds its meaning to the adverb, instead.
It could be the case that in the actual example that a khrun travels =
quickly, but a story travels a lot quickly. I can see that sort of =
meaning that the story travels more. But to say that you speak Klingon =
slowly, but I speak Klingon a lot slowly... that doesn't really carry =
that same kind of meaning as saying that I speak Klingon more slowly =
than you do. It actually sounds like I'm speaking more Klingon than you =
are in the same slow time frame, suggesting that you speak more slowly =
than I do.
If this is simply a grammatical convention, like {law'/puS} =
comparatives, fine. Okrand should describe the grammatical rule. I'm not =
willing to invest as deeply as you in presuming a new grammatical =
construction without any description of the construction from the source =
of all canon.
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
On Nov 26, 2011, at 5:27 PM, Agnieszka Solska wrote:
>=20
> There is a line in the book possibly indicating how to compare =
adverbs:
>=20
> Stories travel faster than a khrun=20
> nom leng Hun nom lengqu' lut
> (pp 130-131)
>=20
> Unless the line in English is merely a loose, poetic interpretation=20
> of the Klingon text, we should at last be able to express such ideas =
as:
>=20
> My ship is faster than yours.
> nom leng DujlIj, nom lengqu' DujwIj.
>=20
> I speak Klingon more slowly than you.
> QIt tlhIngan Hol bIjatlh, QIt tlhIngan Hol jIjatlhqu'.
>=20
> Your captain acts more honorably than you.
> batlh bIvang, batlh vangqu' HoDlI'.
>=20
> Terrans smile more often than Romulans.
> pIj mon romuluSnganpu', pIj monqu' tera'nganpu'.
>=20
> I added the commas, though perhaps periods would work better here.
> There in no punctuation in the Klingon text of <<paq'batlh>>.
>=20
> 'ISqu'
>=20
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div>It would be nice to have an actual description of the grammatical =
rules here instead of what feels like a presumptive leap based upon a =
single canon example in a work that others describe as being full of =
typos and other errors. In your example below, I'd have expected {QIt =
tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh. QIt tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhqu'.} I don't understand =
why the prefix would not indicate a direct =
object.</div><div><br></div><div>Anyway, this opens the question of why =
the {-qu'} applied to the verb apparently adds its meaning to the =
adverb, instead.</div><div><br></div><div>It could be the case that in =
the actual example that a khrun travels quickly, but a story travels a =
lot quickly. I can see that sort of meaning that the story travels more. =
But to say that you speak Klingon slowly, but I speak Klingon a lot =
slowly... that doesn't really carry that same kind of meaning as saying =
that I speak Klingon more slowly than you do. It actually sounds like =
I'm speaking more Klingon than you are in the same slow time frame, =
suggesting that you speak more slowly than I =
do.</div><div><br></div><div>If this is simply a grammatical convention, =
like {law'/puS} comparatives, fine. Okrand should describe the =
grammatical rule. I'm not willing to invest as deeply as you in =
presuming a new grammatical construction without any description of the =
construction from the source of all canon.</div><br><div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; =
"><div>pItlh</div><div>lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div><br></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On Nov 26, 2011, at 5:27 PM, Agnieszka Solska =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div><br>There is a line in the book possibly indicating =
how to compare adverbs:<br><br> Stories travel faster than a =
khrun <br> nom leng Hun nom lengqu' lut<br> (pp =
130-131)<br><br>Unless the line in English is merely a loose, poetic =
interpretation <br>of the Klingon text, we should at last be able to =
express such ideas as:<br><br> My ship is faster than =
yours.<br> nom leng DujlIj, nom lengqu' =
DujwIj.<br><br> I speak Klingon more slowly than =
you.<br> QIt tlhIngan Hol bIjatlh, QIt tlhIngan Hol =
jIjatlhqu'.<br><br> Your captain acts more honorably than =
you.<br> batlh bIvang, batlh vangqu' =
HoDlI'.<br><br> Terrans smile more often than =
Romulans.<br> pIj mon romuluSnganpu', pIj monqu' =
tera'nganpu'.<br><br>I added the commas, though perhaps periods would =
work better here.<br>There in no punctuation in the Klingon text of =
<<paq'batlh>>.<br><br>'ISqu'<br><br> <span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"> </span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"> </span> <span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"> </span> =
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"> =
</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"> =
</span> =
<br>_______________________________________________<br>Tlhingan-hol =
mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org">Tlhingan-hol@stodi.d=
igitalkingdom.org</a><br>http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/=
tlhingan-hol<br></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>=
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