[90771] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Use of -'e' with relative clauses
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Fri Nov 18 11:10:07 2011
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:09:48 -0600
In-Reply-To: <CA+cwSm-sdVWMUiTTdb-a3=ejE1tK6DMQrNgpfZoJaHpbztMFKA@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
Philip:
> Not mentioned in TKD, but proposed in usage and (as far as I know)
> subsequently made official, is the ability to disambiguate which
> constituent(?) of the sentence you are relativising, by using -'e'.
> For example, {yaS qIppu'bogh puq} could mean either "The child who hit
> the officer" or "The officer whom the child hit", and you can
> disambiguate with {yaS qIppu'bogh puq'e'} for the first meaning and
> {yaS'e' qIppu'bogh puq}.
> =
> Is this use of -'e' mandatory in such a case (where both subject and
> object are represented by nouns)?
> If not, is the use of -'e' as a topicaliser still possible?
> [....]
> My understanding is that -'e' as disambiguator is optional in ta' Hol,
> and I would expect that pragmatics and context would make it clear
> that I mean "the pictures that David took" rather than "the
> non-language-using Davids that took the pictures" if I did use the
> -'e' on {De'vID'e'} -- that is, that I was leaving off the optional
> disambiguator and instead using topicalising {-'e'}. (Though it might
> initially be garden-pathed, =E0 la "The horse raced past the barn fell"
> -- so maybe worth avoiding.)
To get the discussion started, here are the examples I have with {-'e'} use=
d (or not used!) as a disambiguator in relative clauses:
loghDaq Suvrupbogh SuvwI'pu' chaH Hoch SuvwI'pu''e' =
In space, all warriors are cold warriors ("warriors who are ready to fight"=
). TKW
butlh ghajbogh nuv'e' yIHo' =
Admire the person with dirt under his fingernails.TKW
nobmey qembogh yIrIDnganpu''e' yIvoqQo' =
Don't trust Yridians who bring gifts. TKW
Huch nobHa'bogh verenganpu''e' yIvoqQo' =
Don't trust Ferengi who give back money. TKW
tajwIj 'oHbe' chorlIj jeqbogh Dochvetlh'e' =
That is not my dagger protruding from your midsection. FTG
yIntaHvIS qeylIS'e' lIjlaHbe'bogh vay' batlh 'etlhvam chenmoHlu'pu' =
this sword of honor descends from the time of Kahless the Unforgettable. S8
qorDu'Daj tuq 'oS Ha'quj'e' tuQbogh wo'rIv =
The sash that Worf wears is a symbol of his family's house. S20
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
> -----Original Message-----
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