[90662] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] O for a Muse of fire
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (De'vID jonpIn)
Mon Nov 14 05:31:57 2011
In-Reply-To: <BAY166-W41BB43B973A529DED73FFCAAC30@phx.gbl>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:31:40 +0100
From: "De'vID jonpIn" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>
To: KLI <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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QeS 'utlh:
> FWIW, 'o isn't in the version
> recorded by Robert O'Reilly; it begins only with 'oghlu'meH qul.
The clue given by MO was that it was the opening of a Shakespearean play,
and that the first word should give it away. We listened to it and thought
it was <'ogh>, so we asked him if that's what it was. He asked to listen
to the recording, then said that O'Reilly had "swallowed" the first sound
into an adjacent word, but confirmed that what we heard was indeed <'ogh>,
and told us that another word in the first sentence should help us. If you
listen to the recording, O'Reilly says <*ha* *ha* *ha* 'oghlume*S* qul>, so
we figured the first word either had to be <'a> (but) or <'o> (O!), and
that the first sentence contains the word <qul> (fire). We basically
combed through opening lines of Shakespeare plays looking for "but", "O",
"fire", and "invention".
These are the opening lines of Henry V:
*O* for a Muse of *fire*, that would ascend
The brightest heaven of *invention*,
A kingdom for a stage, princes to act
And monarchs to behold the swelling scene!
After we reconstructed the line, we confirmed it with MO, who said that as
far as he recalls, the beginning <'o> *should* have been there.
So, it seems that <'o> wasn't invented just recently, but nobody (other
than MO) knew this because Robert O'Reilly had "swallowed" it!
QeS 'utlh:
> I'm still
> trying to work out the rest, but I can hear cha'wI'pu' 'oSjaj SuvwI'pu''e'
> in there, presumably translating "Princes to act" in the third line of the
> English version (and if correct, it gives us a canon word for "actor").
>
There's also a <X wov law' Y wov puS> (it sounds like "... woov boosh")
within the first few lines (for "brightest"), but we couldn't figure out
what X and Y were, though Y *should* be <Hoch> (what he says sounds like
"ookoo").
QeS 'utlh:
>
> If it helps anyone, it seems to me that O'Reilly's reading off a phonetic
> transcript that represents {H} as /ch/; his pronunciation of it is near to
> English "sh". The first line sounds like 'oghlu'meS (!!) qul, and later on
> there are what sounds like two instances of neHlu' being pronounced almost
> like neSlo'. Similarly, his {j} is more like /zh/.
>
Yes, maHvatlh and I made some notes on O'Reilly's pronunciation, as well as
candidates for a number of lines and line fragments... before veqlargh ate
his computer. Seriously, his laptop died while we were doing this. I
don't know if he's arrived home yet, but if he manages to resurrect his
laptop he should be able to post more detailed notes on our partial
reconstruction.
--
De'vID
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<div class=3D"im"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">QeS 'utlh:<br><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class=3D"im">FWIW, 'o isn't in t=
he version</div>
recorded by Robert O'Reilly; it begins only with 'oghlu'meH qul=
.</blockquote><div>=A0</div><div>The clue given by MO was that it was the o=
pening of a Shakespearean play, and that the first word should give it away=
. =A0We listened to it and thought it was <'ogh>, so we asked him=
if that's what it was. =A0He asked to listen to the recording, then sa=
id that O'Reilly had "swallowed" the first sound into an adja=
cent word, but confirmed that what we heard was indeed <'ogh>, an=
d told us that another word in the first sentence should help us. =A0If you=
listen to the recording, O'Reilly says <*ha* *ha* *ha* 'oghlume=
*S* qul>, so we figured the first word either had to be <'a> (=
but) or <'o> (O!), and that the first sentence contains the word =
<qul> (fire). =A0We basically combed through opening lines of Shakesp=
eare plays looking for "but", "O", "fire", an=
d "invention". =A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>These are the opening lines of Henry V:</div><div><div>=
=A0 =A0 <b>O</b> for a Muse of <b>fire</b>, that would ascend</div><div>=A0=
=A0 The brightest heaven of <b>invention</b>,</div><div>=A0 =A0 A kingdom =
for a stage, princes to act</div>
<div>=A0 =A0 And monarchs to behold the swelling scene!</div></div><div><br=
></div><div>After we reconstructed the line, we confirmed it with MO, who s=
aid that as far as he recalls, the beginning <'o> <i>should</i>=
=A0have been there.</div>
<div><br></div><div>So, it seems that <'o> wasn't invented ju=
st recently, but nobody (other than MO) knew this because Robert O'Reil=
ly had "swallowed" it!</div><div><br></div><div><div>QeS 'utl=
h:=A0</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0=
px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-=
left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex=
; ">
I'm still<br>trying to work out the rest, but I can hear cha'wI'=
;pu' 'oSjaj SuvwI'pu''e'<br>in there, presumably tr=
anslating "Princes to act" in the third line of the<br>English ve=
rsion (and if correct, it gives us a canon word for "actor").<br>
</blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>There's also a <X wov law'=
; Y wov puS> (it sounds like "... woov boosh") within the firs=
t few lines (for "brightest"), but we couldn't figure out wha=
t X and Y were, though Y <i>should</i>=A0be <Hoch> (what he says soun=
ds like "ookoo").</div>
<div><br></div>QeS 'utlh:=A0<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
If it helps anyone, it seems to me that O'Reilly's reading off a ph=
onetic<br>
transcript that represents {H} as /ch/; his pronunciation of it is near to<=
br>
English "sh". The first line sounds like 'oghlu'meS (!!) =
qul, and later on<br>
there are what sounds like two instances of neHlu' being pronounced alm=
ost<br>
like neSlo'. Similarly, his {j} is more like /zh/.<br></blockquote><div=
><br></div><div>Yes, maHvatlh and I made some notes on O'Reilly's p=
ronunciation, as well as candidates for a number of lines and line fragment=
s... before veqlargh ate his computer. =A0Seriously, his laptop died while =
we were doing this. =A0I don't know if he's arrived home yet, but i=
f he manages to resurrect his laptop he should be able to post more detaile=
d notes on our partial reconstruction.</div>
</div><div><br></div>-- <br>De'vID<br>
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