[90615] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Kortar and the River of Blood
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?=)
Wed Nov 9 14:54:32 2011
In-Reply-To: <C305E6BD33E2654DAE1F8F403247B6A6031E43EDD644@EVS02.ad.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 20:54:11 +0100
From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?= <esperantist@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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Or maybe they mean "May you travel [yourself!] the River of Blood [into the
other direction, leading away from Gre'thor]!"
Greetings,
- Andr=C3=A9
2011/11/9 Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
> Voragh:
> > We've actually seen a Klingon {bIQ Duj} in VOY "Barge of the Dead":
> > Kortar was captain of the mythical Barge of the Dead; he destroyed
> > the gods who created him and, as punishment, was condemned to ferry
> > the dishonored dead to Grethor.
>
> Brent:
> >> Maybe this is a silly question, but if he destroyed the gods, who
> >> punished him?
>
> Voragh:
> > jIHagh. You know, I had the same thought as I copied that note into
> > my email! Perhaps it was a parting shot from one of the dying gods.
> > Or maybe it's the same forces who operate Gre'thor and keep Fek'lhr at
> > his post!
>
> Apparently Kortar {qortar} appears in the ('u'} libretto and possibly in
> the paq'batlh. Here's what little I have in my notes:
>
> According to legend Kortar, the "first" Klingon, and his mate were
> created in a place called {QI'tu'}. The two destroyed the gods who made
> them and turned the heavens into ashes. This event is recounted in Kling=
on
> marriage ceremonies. (DS9 "You Are Cordially Invited...")
>
> Kortar was the ferryman on the mythical Barge of the Dead who destroyed
> the gods who created him and as punishment, he was condemned to ferry the
> souls of the dishonored dead over the River of Blood to the gates of
> Gre'thor. He's the Klingon equivalent of Charon. (VOY "Barge of the Dead=
")
>
> As I re-read these, it's possibly that "destroyed the gods who made
> him/them" may only refer to those specific gods who made them, not all th=
e
> ancient Klingon gods collectively. Thus there still would be other gods
> left who could have punished him.
>
> And another point... there may be two Rivers of Blood: a physical one on
> Kronos and a mythical one in the Afterlife.
>
> The River Skral {SIqral bIQtIq} is the river on Kronos by Qam-chee where
> Kahless slew Molor. In the "Way of the Warrior" captions the line
> /EJAHDAK-SO-TAS GHOS VA SKRAAL BYTEEK/ is translated in the novelization =
by
> Diane Carey as: "And the River Skral ran crimson red". Is this the "Rive=
r
> of Blood" ('Iw bIQtIq) referred to in the Age of Ascension Ritual? Note
> the idiom {Doq bIQtIq bIQ" "The river water is red" in KGT:
>
> KGT 123: The phrase can be traced back to an old drinking song that
> commemorates the slaying of the tyrant Molor by Kahless. On that day,
> according to the song, the River Skral ran red; that is, it was filled wi=
th
> the blood of Molor.
>
> Why would Klingon warriors say:
>
> 'Iw bIQtIqDaq bIlengjaj
> May you travel the River of Blood! PK
>
> 'Iw bIQtIqDaq jIjaH
> I travel the River of Blood. (
>
> if the River of Blood leads to Gre'thor, the afterlife for the dishonored
> dead? Or could the Klingons - maybe Kahless himself? - have simply calle=
d
> the River Skral "the River of Blood" metaphorically, since Molor is the
> archetype of a dishonored warrior?
>
>
> --
> Voragh
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Or maybe they mean "May you travel [yourself!] the Ri=
ver of Blood [into the other direction, leading away from Gre'thor]!&qu=
ot;<br><br>Greetings,<br>- Andr=C3=A9<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
>2011/11/9 Steven Boozer <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:sboozer@uc=
hicago.edu">sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Voragh:<br>
> We've actually seen a Klingon {bIQ Duj} in VOY "Barge of the =
Dead":<br>
>=C2=A0Kortar was captain of the mythical Barge of the Dead; he destroye=
d<br>
> the gods who created him and, as punishment, was condemned to ferry<br=
>
> the dishonored dead to Grethor.<br>
<br>
Brent:<br>
>> Maybe this is a silly question, but if he destroyed the gods, who<=
br>
>> punished him?<br>
<br>
Voragh:<br>
> jIHagh. =C2=A0You know, I had the same thought as I copied that note i=
nto<br>
> my email! =C2=A0Perhaps it was a parting shot from one of the dying go=
ds.<br>
> Or maybe it's the same forces who operate Gre'thor and keep Fe=
k'lhr at<br>
> his post!<br>
<br>
Apparently Kortar {qortar} appears in the ('u'} libretto and possib=
ly in the paq'batlh. =C2=A0Here's what little I have in my notes:<b=
r>
<br>
=C2=A0According to legend Kortar, the "first" Klingon, and his m=
ate were created in a place called {QI'tu'}. =C2=A0The two destroye=
d the gods who made them and turned the heavens into ashes. =C2=A0This even=
t is recounted in Klingon marriage ceremonies. (DS9 "You Are Cordially=
Invited...")<br>
<br>
=C2=A0Kortar was the ferryman on the mythical Barge of the Dead who destro=
yed the gods who created him and as punishment, he was condemned to ferry t=
he souls of the dishonored dead over the River of Blood to the gates of Gre=
'thor. =C2=A0He's the Klingon equivalent of Charon. (VOY "Barg=
e of the Dead")<br>
<br>
As I re-read these, it's possibly that "destroyed the gods who mad=
e him/them" may only refer to those specific gods who made them, not a=
ll the ancient Klingon gods collectively. =C2=A0Thus there still would be o=
ther gods left who could have punished him.<br>
<br>
And another point... there may be two Rivers of Blood: =C2=A0a physical one=
on Kronos and a mythical one in the Afterlife.<br>
<br>
The River Skral {SIqral bIQtIq} is the river on Kronos by Qam-chee where Ka=
hless slew Molor. =C2=A0In the "Way of the Warrior" captions the =
line /EJAHDAK-SO-TAS GHOS VA SKRAAL BYTEEK/ is translated in the novelizati=
on by Diane Carey as: "And the River Skral ran crimson red". =C2=
=A0Is this the "River of Blood" ('Iw bIQtIq) referred to in t=
he Age of Ascension Ritual? =C2=A0Note the idiom {Doq bIQtIq bIQ" &quo=
t;The river water is red" in KGT:<br>
<br>
KGT 123: =C2=A0The phrase can be traced back to an old drinking song that c=
ommemorates the slaying of the tyrant Molor by Kahless. On that day, accord=
ing to the song, the River Skral ran red; that is, it was filled with the b=
lood of Molor.<br>
<br>
Why would Klingon warriors say:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0'Iw bIQtIqDaq bIlengjaj<br>
=C2=A0May you travel the River of Blood! PK<br>
<br>
=C2=A0'Iw bIQtIqDaq jIjaH<br>
=C2=A0I travel the River of Blood. (<br>
<br>
if the River of Blood leads to Gre'thor, the afterlife for the dishonor=
ed dead? =C2=A0Or could the Klingons - maybe Kahless himself? - have simply=
called the River Skral "the River of Blood" metaphorically, sinc=
e Molor is the archetype of a dishonored warrior?<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
--<br>
Voragh<br>
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons<br>
<br>
<br>
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hol</a><br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>
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