[89621] in tlhIngan-Hol
RE: 'oghwI' lut
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Josh Badgley)
Mon Sep 12 12:42:31 2011
From: Josh Badgley <joshbadgley@hotmail.com>
To: KLI <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 11:36:55 -0500
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20110912082917.045a6e00@flyingstart.ca>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
I appreciate the time you took to review my story. I can clearly see my mistakes. Especially with using lu- on a subject that is grammatically singular but refers to a group of people. I think the problem is I keep forgetting that 0- is actually a prefix...it's not visible or audible, but it's still there. So I now understand that it's correct to say:
<<SuyDuj? nuq HIj SuyDujvam?>> jang Qel
rather than
<<SuyDuj? nuq luHIj SuyDujvam>> jang Qel
This language just keeps getting more fascinating...
One minor point though...most of the time, when I use -Qo', I really mean "refuse". I did scan through my story and there were times when you were correct, I meant -be', but the political "situation" as it were is that since the Organians have prohibited any violent conflict within the zone, the UFP refuses to stop the Orions from raiding worlds which have not yet decided to join either the UFP or the Klingons. Thus, the idea is that these planets will either be attacked by Orions who have been bribed by the Klingons, or (more likely) the Klingons will try to make it "look" like the Orions have attacked (I haven't figured out the how yet). So the planet will run to the Empire for protection, and the Empire will claim another planet in the Organian zone for itself.
Thank you again for your time...
DaH, vIvumqa'
-- jhb
> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 09:07:09 -0700
> To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> From: robyn@flyingstart.ca
> Subject: Re: 'oghwI' lut
>
> A recent comment by QeS suggested to me tat we don't have a BG right
> now. If I'm wrong, please let me know and accept my apologies for
> jumping in. I feel an obligation to help out here in appreciation of
> the work others have put into helping with my story.
>
> At 07:35 12/09/2011, you wrote:
> >This is the first part of my first story in tlhIngan Hol. I have
> >been studying SuvwI' Hol for all of two months, so I ask for your
> >patience. Please give me feedback and let me know anything that
> >needs correcting. I don't really intend to make this story too
> >long, and I am already too interested in Qov's ongoing saga to flood
> >this list with another (much more inferior) story.
>
> lutwIj DalaDtaHmo' ('ej DanaDta'mo') choquvmoH. vIqontaHvIS laDbogh
> chu'wI' vIqel 'ach SaH chu'wI'vetlh 'e' vSovbe'.
>
> >orayangan - Orion.
>
> No problem with you using it, but it would be 'orayangan -- Klingon
> words never start with vowels.
>
> >'ay' wa'
> >
> >toQDuj 'oghwI' ra' Qel HoD.
>
> Ah <'oghwI'> is the name of the ship. He's not ordering around its inventor.
>
> > 'orghengan rojHom mIch ngIv 'oghwI'. <<HoD>>, ja' HuS ya,
> > <<SuyDujHey vIHotlh! <<SuyDuj? nuq luHIj SuyDujvam?>> jang Qel.
>
> Although there are multiple people on the SuyDuj, and although you
> might say "What are they carrying?" in English, the grammar here
> forces me to read it as "What are these merchant ships carrying?"
>
> ><<nuq 'oH ghochHeychaj'e'?>> jatlh Qel.
>
> I like that. Excellent use of -Hey.
>
> ><<mIchvamDaq yuQ DoQbe'bogh lughoStaH>> jang HuS.
>
> lu- works here without they explicit subject, because I can make the
> subject the multiple people inside the ship.
>
> ><<HuS, pa'wIjDaq jIjaH! HItlhej!>> ra' Qel.
>
> In a complex set of rules that I myself get wrong, pa'Daq jIjaH means
> I am already inside the room and the motion takes place inside it.
> pa'wIj vIjaH is the meaning you want.
>
> >*orayangan* weHwI'pu' marur'eghmoH.
>
> You might make this extra clear with the word jech.
>
> >'orghengan rojHom mIch nganpu' luQanQo' yuQjIjDIvI'.
>
> You're saying "The UFP won't protect the inhabitants of the Orion
> treaty sector" but do you mean "The UFP refuses to protect them"
> (what you've said) or "The UFP isn't going to protect them" (which
> takes -be' not -Qo'). I suspect you've accidentally used -Qo to
> translate English future "won't" instead of English refusal won't.
>
> >yuQjIjDIvI' lumovQo'
>
> mov is the top of the foot. You want muv, join. And again, why would
> the locals refuse to join the UFP? Do you again mean the future won't?
>
> ><<'ach weHvam
>
> weH is only a verb, not a noun.
>
> >not lunaDbejbe' tlhIngan ra'ghomquv,
>
> We don't have examples of a double negative used this way in Klingon.
> I think you need to decide whether it's <not lunaD> or <lunaDbe'>.
>
> You have a persistent habit of treating a single group that you know
> to be composed of multiple individuals as grammatically plural. I
> don't think this is correct.
>
> >vaj nabwIj yIjatlhQo'!>>
>
> Just wanted to highlight an obviously correct use of -Qo'. If I
> misunderstood the political situation in the earlier usages, just tell me.
>
> ><<maj, HuS. martaq 'uQDajDaq DalannIS.>>
>
> I don't understand this sentence. "You have to place it at martaq's
> dinner." Place what? If you're going for "It must take place during
> martaq's dinner" try the verb qaS. If Qel is giving HuS something to
> put in martaq's dinner, the exchange of the object needs to be clearer.
>
> You've done a terrific job here, and there are many who have been
> working with the language a lot longer than three months who would be
> proud to command it this well.
>
> Daj QuS botbogh QuSvam. vIlaDlI' 'e' vIHech.
>
>
>
>
