[89588] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: chIjwI' tIQ bom: 'ay' loS
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Sun Sep 11 14:14:20 2011
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:03:11 -0700
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
From: Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
In-Reply-To: <BAY166-W30F0676A134E2BD17FA4ABAA030@phx.gbl>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
At 05:25 11/09/2011, lab QeS:
As usual my comments before resorting to the English in [these] and
afterwards {in these}.
>chIjwI' tIQ bom: 'ay' loS
[vIlaDrup ...]
>< choghIjtaH, 'ej mughIjtaH je
>ghoplIj lang, chIjwI' tIQ!
>bIlang, bIDoq; lam vIl Darur,
>lam vIl'e' So'bogh bIQ.
>
>mughIjtaH mInlIj boch SoH je,
>mughIj je ghoplIj lang. >
>< SawtaHghach meb, yIHajchoHQo'!
>taH porghvam'e' net 'ang.
>
>jImob, jImob, reH, reH jImob,
>bIQ'a'Daq taH pagh qa'![1]
[Hee I was just happily reading along up to here before I remembered
Qu' vIta'nISbogh.]
"You scare me and so do your skinny hands, ancient mariner. You're
lean and brown [some colour between red and yellow, not sure if it
should be tan or jaundiced] as wrinkled sand, like the ridged sand
lapped by water. [Full disclosure, I accidentally read part of a
study guide that mentioned the mariner being compared to ridged sand
on a beach, but I think that description is clear without foreknowledge.]
"Your shining eyes scare me too, ancient mariner, and your skinny hands."
"Fear not, wedding guest, 'tis proof that this body endures."
Alone, alone, I was alone forever.
Not one spirit endured on the sea.
>pagh qa' quv vupmoHchu'taH ghob,
Virtue did not bring one honoured spirit to pity.
>mujoy'taHvIS bep'a'.
Unimaginable agony tortured me.
>choQ ravDaq Qot Heghpu'bogh lom,
The corpses of the dead lay on the deckboards.
>law'qu' loDpu' 'ej 'IH:
The men were many and handsome ['IH'a'? If that's your thing! You
poor sod desperate for a rhyme.]
{OMG, that's what Coleridge wrote, and it wasn't desperation for a rhyme.}
>'ej yIntaH charbogh wa''uy' Dep;
A million slimy beings lived on [Hmm, slimy being inflation :-) ]
>jIyIntaHqu' je jIH.
And so did I. [Yeah, I know that line]
>'ej ngImtaHbogh bIQ'a' vIbej,
And I watched the ever-putrid sea
{If it's rottING, isn't it ngImchoH?}
>'oHvo' mInwIj vIteq;
I took my eyes from it
>ghIq ngImtaHbogh choQ rav vIbej,
Then I watched the putrid deck.
{Ditto, ngImchoH}
>pa' ratlh Heghpu'bogh beq.
There the dead crew remained .
>QunwI' vIjatlhchoH 'e' vInID,
I tried to speak to my god. [is that the right grammar? not QunvaD jIjatlh?]
>'ach Qun SoQ tlhuDlu'pa',
But before a prayer came forth
>jItlhuplaH neH - mIghlaw'bogh wab,
I could only whisper evil sounds
>'ej tIqwIj QaDmoHta'.
And it dried up my heart.
{Well translated!}
>mInDu'wIj'e' vISoQmoHchu',
I closed my eyes fast shut.
>moQDu' lumoqlu'law';
The eyeballs seemed battered.
{ahh, I missed the musical meaning}
>chalvo', bIQvo', bIQvo', chalvo'
From the sky, from the water, from the water, from the sky.
>mInDaq tep 'ugh lanlu'law'mo',
A heavy load had been placed upon my eyes.
>'ej Dechmo' lommey law'.
And there was much because there were corpses all around.
{Hm, it's for the rhythm you've avoided muDech, I guess, but why not
muDechtaH lommey law'?}
>bIrbogh bIQ na' tlhuD ghIvDu'chaj,
Their limbs [I had to google for this. I'd missed the qep'a' wa'maH
SochDIch mu'tay
<http://klingon.livejournal.com/2010/07/28/>http://klingon.livejournal.com/2010/07/28/]
gave off cold salty water [Eww, really?]
{Ah, cold sweat. I didn't get that, because a) they're dead and b)
cold salty water is everywhere.}
>nonbe' 'ej He'So'be';
They were not rotten and did not stink. [Wait, weren't they putrid a
few verses ago. The deck is putrid but the corpses aren't?]
{Okay, that one's on Coleridge}
>muleghmo' qabDu'chaj jI'Igh,
I was cursed that their faces saw me.
>'ej 'e' vIlIjlaHbe'.
And I cannot forget it.
{Ahh, I take Coleridges to mean that as the corpses hadn't rotted,
their condemning expressions persist, but yours reads as though it's
only in his mind that they do.}
>veqlarghvaD qa' nob 'IghmoHbogh
>mIn'e' ghajbogh puq chun.
The eyes of an innocent child that cursed gave a soul to the devil. [Huh?]
The eyes that cursed a gift [-- no wait there's nothing left to be a
verb like that.]
The curse-giving eyes of an innocent child gave a soul to the devil.
[I think this is well-formed, but I'm having trouble parsing it. I
think it's just overloaded my parser in a "house that Jack built"
way, but that it's a non-native speaker problem, not a problem with
the grammar]
>'ach 'Ighbogh lom mIn'e' mIgh woch
>puq chun mIn'e' mIgh run!
[Oh there's more on this puqqoq chun, maybe this will explain. Ha, I
almost blew a gasket before I realized that it was a law'/puS
construction, because I was so fiated on the puq. Very clever way to
get a rhyme.]
But the cursed corpses' eyes were more evil than an innocent child's eyes.
[quSDaq bIba', Coleridge, isn't the point that an innocent child's
eyes are less evil than anything?]
[Okay, then the whole thing, now I get it.] "Those eyes in an
innocent child would send a man to hell, but this was even
worse." [Except for that meaning I would have expected <... mIn'e'
ghajchugh puq chun>.]
{And weirdly, yours makes more sense than his in the end. At least
you related the child to something. His child is totally random. Hee,
I'm really on board with the spirt of bom qon. It's more like you and
Coleridge have qon the same bom than that you are translating his.
Damn, I really like that concept. Thus stories and poems are never
really translated into Klingon. You simply go out and qon them.}
>Soch jaj, Soch ram vI'IghmoHlu',
Seven days and seven nights I was made cursed. [Is <vI'IghmoHlu'>
needed, or just a fancy way of saying jI'IghchoHtaH?]]
>'ach reH Hegh mIn vIjun.
But I always evaded the eyes of death.
{Ooh, that's a different concept than in the original. I took yours
to be that somehow the narrator was evading the curse of the eyes,
whereas Coleridge's narrator seems to crave death. While you're
probably delighted to have kept the eyes thing going (and it is
good), the problem for me is that in Klingon we can't see the
difference between death's eyes and Death's eyes. I think that
ambiguity is okay, because we already know that everyone else died
and he didn't. I imagine there will be a more explicit jIHeghlaHbe'
in a later verse. Just know that it may not have been fully communicated yet.}
>chalDaq toS vIHtaHbogh maS'e',
The inconstant moon climbed in the sky.
{And sometimes vIHtaHbogh ONLY means vIHtaHbogh :-) }
>Hoch DaqDaq ratlhtaHQo'.
It wouldn't stay anywhere.
>QIt chalDaq Sal 'ej jenchoH 'oH,
It slowly rose high in the sky. [Always the moon, what is it about
poets and the moon?]
>tlhejmoHmeH cha' Hov vo':
It rowed a couple of stars around. [I really have no idea what the
moon is doing with those stars, but Iost respect for Coleridge's
ideas about the moon and stars when he had the latter shine through
the former. Basic observation, dude, if you're not too high.]
{I guess vo' was just needed for the rhyme, then.}
>poH bIr yav So'bogh chuchHom rur
>bIQ ghun luSo'bogh tIH:
The rays glazed the warm water like a winter's frost.
[had to look up ghun, and work for that a bit, but it was worth it. I
could relate back to the water covering the sand and realized the
direction you were stretching So'. Well done.]
>'ach DaqDaq So'bogh Duj QIb tIn,
But there where the ship's great shadow fell on it.
>meQlaw'taH bIQvetlh, leghDI' mIn:
The water seemed to my eyes to be burning.
>Doqqu' 'ej mIgh; not vIH.
Red and evil, unmoving.
>Dujmaj QIb 'emDaq bIQ vIbej
I watched the water behind our ship's shadow
>vIHtaHvIS ghargh ghotI':
while sea serpents
>wovqu'bogh Hemey chIS leng bIH;
travelled a glowing white path.
>porghchajvo' pum HovHommey 'IH
beautiful sparkles fell from their bodies [pan'a' pagh ghISDen bIH'a'?]
{Oh freaking well done, seeing as I have exactly the same question
after reading the original.}
[This verse has a very English-like order. It does obey Klingon
grammar but in the manner of somone who is shy about moving things
around. I don't think that's you, so I assume that was the order
needed to make it work.]
>'ej boch, bIQvo' SalDI'.
And they gleamed as they rose from the water.
>Dujmaj QIb botlhDaq vIHtaHvIS
>ghargh jechmey nguv vIHo':
As they moved in the centre of our ship's shadow, I admired the
serpents' raiments.
[Sometimes I feel like a cheat when I choose a word like raiment to
translate a word like jech, but then I realize it is no more of a
cheat than choosing pob to translate hair from English to Klingon.
Some languages use one word to cover several situations and some have
words that have to be chosen per situation.]
>SuDqu' 'ej qIj, jIr bIH 'ej laq;
Blue and black, they twirled and flapped
{Awesome that you get to use one word to translate "blue glossy
green" and be totally accurate}
>bIQ bIngDaq, gharghmeyvetlh HeDaq
>panlaw' meQbogh vaHbo'.
Under the water burning lava seemed to illuminate those serpents'
paths with sparks.
>'o [2] Quchbogh Dep! 'IHchu'ghachchaj
>lumaqlaHbe' nuvpu':
Oh happy beasts! People cannot proclaim their beauty.
>bIHvaD muSHa'ghach tlhuD tIqwIj
My heart emitted love for them.
>'ej bIH vIquvmoHchu'.
And I honoured them.
>muvupchoHbej mu'avbogh qa',
The spirits that guarded me surely came to pity me.
>'ej bIH vIquvmoHchu'.
And I honoured them.
>ngugh QunwI'vaD jIjatlhchoHlaH,
At that moment I became able to speak to my god.
>'ej tagha' mongwIjvo'
>ngaQHa'choH yatqap, bIQDaq pum;
And finally the albatross became loosed from my neck. It fell into the water
>baS ngogh rur, vaj tlhotQo'.
like a lump of metal and sank. [Heh, tlhotQo', not bad at all. I like
it better than simply tlhotbe'.]
[Okay now here goes with the English ...]
{Awright!}
- Qov
