[89558] in tlhIngan-Hol
A ghaj for every -Daj? - jInIDqa'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Sat Sep 10 10:10:43 2011
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: "tlhIngan-Hol@KLI.org" <tlhIngan-Hol@KLI.org>
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:02:58 +0000
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
nuq vIghajlaH?
The English verb "to have" is used in a lot of different contexts, and so is its equivalents in many other languages. This is not strange, since it refers to pretty much any relation you can think of, but nevertheless the set of uses varies slightly from language to language here on Earth:
In English, it's used to refer to giving birth ("She's on maternity leave because she just had a baby"), to necessity ("I HAVE to do this!") and more.
In Swedish, the phrase "att ha rtt" means the same as the English "to be right", and the literal translation "to have right" means something quite different. Likewise, "att ha fel" = "to be wrong", "att ha rd" = "to be able to afford", "att ha ont" = "to be in pain", and more.
In French, the word "avoir" is used to say that one is hungry ("avoir faim"), cold ("avoir froid"), hot ("avoir chaud"), thirsty ("avoir soif") and more. It's also used to refer to age ("Elle avoir 21 ans") and height/length/width ("La maison a 5 mtre de haut") [which can also be done in English, but it's not the standard way].
Then, of course, there are the many different types of things one can "possess" in English:
* Material possessions - "I have a rake"
* Body parts - "You have beautiful eyes", "I have two arms"
* Features - "You have great charisma", "The forest has an interesting history", "You have no soul!"
* Diseases - "I have a cold"
* Experiences - "Have a good day!", "I've had a good upbringing", "I just had see-e-e-ex!", "We had great weather", "We had a lot of luck"
* Pets - "I have two dogs and one cat"
* Knowledge - "I have a good command of the English language"
* People that one is somehow related to - "I have a brother and two sisters", "Do you have any children?", "I have many friends", "Do these people have a leader?", "I have many employees", "My club has 47 members"
...and more.
It is far from trivial to assume that all languages must use the same word to refer to all these various forms of possession. According to Arika Okrent's "In the Land of Invented Languages", the speakers of the Mekeo language make a distinction between alienable possession ("This is my canoe, but I may give it to somebody else in the future") and inalienable possession ("This is my brother; nothing will ever change that."). Supposedly, if you were to refer to your children in the former sense rather than the latter, that would carry all sorts of implications with it.
Likewise, one can imagine there would be cultures where saying "I have 24 ribs" would indicate that the person has 24 torn-out ribs just lying about their house, and a different expression would be used to say that the person's rib cage contains 24 ribs.
Diseases and experiences are not things that you own, but rather things that visit you temporarily. If is far from obvious that they should be referred to in the same way as family members or material possessions.
It is clear that when we speak Klingon, we cannot always assume that the word ghaj is an adequate translation of the English verb "to have". Many would object if I said jaj Dun yIghaj ("Have a great day!") (and Marc Okrand has once objected to the use of the phrase jarlIj: http://klingonska.org/canon/search/?file=1996-12-12b-news.txt&get=source ) or lopno' boghajtaH'a' ("Are you having a party?"), and it also pops up in some unexpected places (pIch vIghajbe', anyone?).
So, what I'd like to do is inventory the different canonical uses of the word ghaj and try to see what categories they fit into, latlh ta'meH pagh vIghajmo'. Please let me know if you know of any examples I've missed, or if you feel I've stuck something in the wrong category. Also, if you find any of the examples surprising or otherwise interesting, please share your thoughts.
In this list, RE means I feel the use resembles English's use of the genitive, and KO means it kind of resembles it.
Possessions:
RE nIn 'ar wIghaj - How much fuel do we have? [TKD]
RE qaStaHvIS wa'maH puq poHmey, wo'rIv betleH ghaj qorDu'Daj - Worf's bat'telh (bat'leth) has been in his family for ten generations. [S8]
Experiences/States:
KO pIch vIghajbe' - It's not my fault! [TKD]
Body parts:
RE butlh ghajbogh nuv'e' yIHo' - Admire the person with dirt under his/her fingernails. [TKW]
RE cha'maH cha' joQDu' ghaj qama' - The prisoner has 22 ribs. [KGT]
KO tlham ghaj - "have gravity" (idiom; really means "has structure")
Features:
KO Hov ghajbe'bogh ram rur pegh ghajbe'bogh jaj - A day without secrets is like a night without stars. [PK]
Knowledge:
RE De' pegh vIghaj. - I have secret information. [PK]
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It seems we've thus far only seen the word ghaj be used in a small number of the roles we might expect. Left to explore are, for example:
Related people - Would you say <cha' be'nI'pu' ghaj DuraS>, or would that imply some sort of ownership? Would one perhaps <cha' DuraS be'nIpu' tu'lu'> ("One discovers two sisters of Duras")?
How would you say "Do any of your friends speak Klingon"? Could you say <tlhIngan Hol jatlhlaHbogh jup'e' Daghaj'a'.>, or would you have to go with something like <tlhIngan Hol jatlhlaHbogh juplI''e' tu'lu''a'.> or <juppu'lI''e' tlhIngan Hol jatlhlaH'a' vay'.>
Can a house "have" members? Can a city "have" residents?
Experiences:
At the very least, it seems one can "have" blame. I marked this as KO because in English one can "bear the blame" for something and one can say "it's my fault", but you wouldn't normally say "I have the fault".
What other experiences could one possibly have? Would one enamored say <parmaq vIghaj>? In TNG: "Cause and Effect", was Worf really saying <nIbpoH vIghajlaw'>? In DS9: "Soldiers of the Empire", would one be correct in saying that <nItebHa' tova'Daq lughaj wo'rIv martaq je.>?
What of <yIn QaQ Daghajjaj>?
Diseases:
"I am sick", "I have a rare condition"... In English, one tends to use verbs of being to speak of disease in general, but when one speaks of specific ailments, one tends to use verbs of having.
It doesn't seem Klingons "have" headaches; they <wuQ>.
What then of fevers? In English, you can say both "I'm feverish" and "I have a fever". The verbs "enfevored" and "feverous" also exist, even if they're rarely used.
Colds? In Swedish, I sometimes say "Jag har en frkylning" ("I have a cold") and sometimes "Jag r frkyld" ("I'm cold:ed").
ja'chuqghach Dun wIghajjaj!
________________________________________
From: Gaerfindel [gaerfindel@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 15:58
To: Felix Malmenbeck
Subject: nuq bIHvalth?
On 9/10/2011 9:40 AM, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:
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>
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Umm...I'm not reading anything but gibberish, here.
~quljIb
