[89264] in tlhIngan-Hol
RE: Questions on "expanded" noun-noun phrases
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Tue Aug 30 15:08:51 2011
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:01:26 -0500
In-Reply-To: <F52986192E9FE346B0B7EF3D6F98E87711BDB53D@EXDB3.ug.kth.se>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
To add to the confusion, we also have the noun {ghubDaQ} "first-born child" to throw into the mix. If the noun {ngIq} is appropriate, the word order could be tricky:
Kahless' only son
? nqIq qeylIs puqloD
? qeylIs ngIq puqloD
FYI, here are ghunchu'wI' and Qov's comments and examples WRT {ngIq}:
"qaStaHvIS Hogh ngIq mu'meyvam vI'anglI'. [...] Qatlh mu'vam. loQ <Hoch> rur. cha'
lo' chovnatlh DIlegh. wa' Doch nungchugh, le'chu' Dochvetlh. rurbogh latlh tu'lu'be'.
<ngIq voDleH wItoy'.>
wa' voDleH neH tu'lu'. ghaH wItoy'.
Doch law' nungchugh, ghu' rap SIQ Hoch Doch, pagh ta' rap ta' Hoch Doch, 'ach quqbe'.
le' Hoch Doch. SIQ/vang wa' ghIq SIQ/vang latlh ghIq SIQ/vang latlh...
<ngIq paqmey vIlaD.>
paq wa'DIch vIlaD. vIlaDta'DI', paq veb vIlaD. tagha' paq Qav vIlaD. reH wa' paq neH vIlaDlI'.
<lomDaq tuy' ngIq SuvwI'pu'.>
tlheghDaq Qam SuvwI'pu'. Duv SuvwI' wa'DIch 'ej tuy'. mej. Duv SuvwI' veD 'ej tuy'. mej.
not tuy' cha' SuvwI'pu' quq. mobchugh ngIq, wa' le'chu'wI' 'oS 'e' vIloy, 'ach DIch vIghajlaHbe'."
(ghunchu'wI', 8/18/11)
"latlh chovnatlh vIlaD: <ngIq nuv luHoH>. mughmeH navDaq ghItlhlu' "They killed them one-by-one"." (Qov, 8/19/2011)
"We had the same question and Mark merely said that if {Hoch} was preferable, then use {Hoch}. In fact the group proofreading the page where it first appeared, originally replaced the word with a better one. [...] It seems to have a sense of individuality more distinct than the "each" of {Hoch} + singular when applied to a group." (Qov, 8/19/11)
"There were two distinct examples of this word's use seen in the opera. One of them was obviously detailing how a group of warriors was killed one at a time: {ngIq nuv luHoH} "they killed the warriors one by one." The other was a thrice-repeated {ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej...} "in one single move, he...", making it clear that each of several results was the result of the same action. I surmise that {ngIq} by itself could mean "the one and only". Again, I didn't copy the lyrics, and what I have written here is probably not exactly what was on the pages we inspected." (ghunchu'wI', 8/21/2011)
"To add to that, a couple of us did ask if {lu-} was the appropriate pronominal prefix in this example (given the gloss of "they killed *them* one by one"), and Marc confirmed explicitly that it is correct. [...] I specifically recall Marc saying that {ngIq} meant something like (I quote) "each, but not every". I asked whether the sense could be seen as more distributive than {Hoch}: that is, each one of a group on its own, or separately - and he seemed to affirm that, but from the examples in the libretto I do get the feeling that the sense of sequence seems to be key too: the other example given by ghunchu'wI', {ngIq voDleH wItoy'} "we serve each emperor (in turn)", supports that idea (opposed to, say, {Hoch voDleH wItoy'} "we serve each emperor [simultaneously]"?)." (QeS, 8/22/11)
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
> -----Original Message-----
Felix Malmenbeck:
>
> Yeah, my first thought when I saw ngIq being used was that it was the answer to
> my prayers, but the "one-by-one" interpretation has me wondering.
> As Robyn suggests, however, it does seem to be a versatile word that we may
> learn to use in various ways later on.
>
> What would be nifty about having a verb is that you could manipulate it in a bunch
> of fun ways, but of course there's quite a few nifty things you can do with nouns,
> as well :)
>
> I've previously thought one may be able to say something like Hoch wej puqwI' {All
> three of my children}, or possibly doing something with naQ {be
> full/whole/entire/complete}.
> ________________________________________
Lucifuge Rofocale [fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk]
>
> > On a side note, I wish there were a word meaning "to be the only one(s)".
> > qeylIS wa' puqloD [only] - Kahless' only son
> > wej 'etlhmeywIj [only] - All of my three blades
> > wa' toQDuj [only]be' - One of my more than one Birds-of-Prey
>
> Did Maltz give us the word "ngIq" this year just gone? Would that do? qep'a'
> attendees, your assistance is required.
>
