[89204] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: chIjwI' qanqu' bom: 'ay' wa'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Sun Aug 28 13:06:06 2011
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 09:59:22 -0700
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
From: Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
In-Reply-To: <BAY166-W55C166FE568DEEC5C941DFAA150@phx.gbl>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
At 06:57 28/08/2011, you wrote:
> >Cowed isn't quite the right meaning. Somewhere between that and held.
> >It works. You like it better than jon?
>
>The original is "The Mariner hath his will". I do like {chargh}, but
>{jon} would work fine too; I may go back to that.
With "hath his will" I might look at vIHqangbe'moH chIjwI', maybe
vanglaHbe'moH, that sort of thing.
> >Our ship began to roll and pitch; even the brave old horn-blowing
> >warrior cried out.
> >It was like an impatient follower that hunts his enemy's shadow and
> >a hunter on his felled prey.
>
>I thought things might get hairy here.
>
>Coleridge has: "With sloping masts and dipping prow / As who pursued
>with yell and blow / Still treads the shadow of his foe / And forward
>bends his head". The headless relative makes it hard to parse even in
>the English. What I intended here was:
Gad, yeah, I don't even know what that's supposed to mean in English.
Because there are words like ghoch (v) and wamwI', I was confused by
tlha'wI', thinking it must mean something other than wamwI'. It being
a foe that he pursues, use Suv. You can't use torwI' to mean a head
bender because (a) it's a nautical story so the pitch sense
predominates and (b) even when you associate it with a person the
meaning kneel comes out. Spare yourself some grief and some syllables
and use the unambiguous joD.
> jach gheb je lo'bogh SuvwI' yoH, : A brave warrior who uses yell and
> horn,
I would go less literal here and dive into TKW for mIv je DaS to
describe the accoutrements of the warrior.
>jaghDaj QIb wambogh tlha'wI' boH, : An impatient chaser who hunts his
> enemy's shadow,
I much prefer ghoch to wam here, freeing you to use wamwI' and
alleviate my tlha' confusion. Heck I even get confused in English by
"chaser" for hunter.
>nach torwI' je rurlaw', : and one who bends [his] head it
> seemed to resemble.
>
>So, more freely: "It seemed to resemble a brave warrior who used yell
>and horn, an impatient chaser who hunts his enemy's shadow and keeps
>his head bent". I had misremembered {jach} as having a noun form; I
>should have used {bey}. And because I used {je} in the last clause I
>guess it does sound like three different things being talked about.
>
> >We passed by ice in the water, we visited it, ice like tall blue
> >mountains.
> >(we visited it? huh?)
Keep the Klingon original in the reply next time so it's easier for
me to refer back to what I was commenting on, please. I wouldn't
state that you were overstretching it, but that wamy reaction on
reading it, i.e. oh, did they go ashore and visit it? were they
somehow there on purpose? Would nughatlh or nuDech work in context?
Or even nuSuch chuch.
>The idea is they're not deliberately visiting it, but because the ice
>is floating past them, they are anyway. Do you think I'm stretching
>the sense of {Such} too far?
>
> >One seemed to hear sounds from it. An apparently passed out coward
> >resembled it.
> >Huh? Is the simile deliberately inverted?
>
>Yep, solely for the sake of the end-rhyme.
Ahh.
>
>Coleridge's original is "It cracked and growled, and roared and howled
>/ Like noises in a swound!".
Oooh, Coleridge has you beat there. His is good! mupIlmoH.
*I* read it as the noises you might here when partly unconscious, a
vague awareness of sound without identification or parsing. Wasn't
Coleridge an opium addict? Thus I think you're going the wrong way
with the passed out coward, and you should instead consider the last
sounds heard by a warrior fallen in battle, or the rush of outer
space into a ruptured hull as warriors breathe their last.
>"Swound" is an archaic word for "swoon"
>(both as noun and verb), so the way I read that is that the noises are
>like the sounds made by someone passing out. (Maybe {vulchoHbogh} is
>better than {vullaw'bogh}.) I assumed a Klingon would think only a
>coward would make so much noise while falling unconscious, but if
>that assumption doesn't work (I admit it's laboured) I'm open to any
>suggestions.
>
>QeS 'utlh
>
