[88210] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Klingon in other languages
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (MorphemeAddict)
Tue Aug 24 15:17:30 2010
In-Reply-To: <769742.27403.qm@web80503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:12:49 -0400
From: MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
tlhIngan Hol "I" rur nIppon Hol "u". pIj latlh Holmey
jatlhwI'pu'vaD potlhHa' wabmeyvam.
lay'tel SIvten
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Russ Perry, Jr.
<russperryjr@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
> On Tue, 8/24/10, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The Japanese whispering of "u" (and sometimes "i") can
> > occur after any unvoiced consonant (k, t, p, s). The rules
> > are probably more complicated than that, but it definitely
> > occurs in non-final positions.
>
> Well, I did say "predominantly" :-), though I admit even that
> may suggest that it happens less often than it does...
>
> My point is that the vowel is "swallowed", but not omitted
> outright, so when Terrence presented "kringon-go", it may
> have implied to those who don't have experience with Japanese
> to think that they would have no trouble pronouncing the "kr"
> like it was in "Kris Kringle"; but more to the point, there's
> still a bit of a break between the consonants... I mean,
> "sukoshi" can have the "u" and the "i" swallowed, but it
> sounds more like "s-kosh-" (with the "-" representing a
> noticeable pause) than "skosh" as an English speaker would
> pronounce its borrowed word. At least, they sounded different
> to me; perhaps I wasn't listening to nihongo speakers talking
> fast enough though...
>
> > On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Russ Perry, Jr. <
> russperryjr@sbcglobal.net
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 8/24/10, Terrence Donnelly wrote:
> > > > Also, since the 'u' sound very frequently drops
> > out in spoken
> > > > Japanese, this is probably pronounced
> > "kringon-go".
> > >
> > > I'm pretty sure the u-dropping predominantly occurs
> > only in word-
> > > final positions, so "gozaimasu" will sound like
> > "gozaimas", but
> > > "kuringon-go" will still sound like "kuringon-go".
> > >
> > > At the very least, the "kr" in what you wrote would
> > NOT be the "kr"
> > > consonant cluster, but more like "k'r" (where the "'"
> > is a break in
> > > the pronunciation, not the tlhIngan Hol glottal
> > stop).
> > >
> > > > On Tue, 8/24/10, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > Since Klingons were around long
> > > > > before tlhIngan Hol, the Japanese word
> > > > > ("kuringon-go") is almost certainly from the
> > English
> > > > > "Klingon" rather than
> > > > > Klingon "tlhIngan".
> > > > > lay'tel SIvten
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 2:25 AM, Fiat Knox
> > <fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > In Japanese it would be pronounced
> > phonetically
> > > > and
> > > > > written in katakana - a
> > > > > > character set which, like kanji, I fear
> > I cannot
> > > > > reproduce here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The "tlh" of "tlhIngan Hol" is not
> > pronounceable
> > > > as
> > > > > such in Japanese.
> > > > > > Instead, Japanese uses the closest
> > syllables, in
> > > > this
> > > > > case "ku ri na n."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The word for "language" is "go".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > kurinango - Klingon language
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wish I could show you the kana and
> > kanji.
>
> --
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