[87816] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: suffixes -lu'wI'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (David Trimboli)
Thu Feb 11 12:56:54 2010
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:54:20 -0500
From: David Trimboli <david@trimboli.name>
In-reply-to: <6038b7231002110542n5ee6a736l16eac96b2bcf4a13@mail.gmail.com>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
On 2/11/2010 8:42 AM, André Müller wrote:
> Thanks very much for your answer. You say a verb with {-lu'} has no subject.
> This is partly true. See the following example:
> {wIleghlu'.} = Someone sees us. / We are seen.
> (1PL>3SG-see-PASS) [I'm just calling it a passive, because I can't come up
> with a better term]
>
> The prefix indicates that a first person plural subject is involved. But
> when using an overt subject in such a sentence, it's used in object
> position:
>
> {naDev puqpu' [lu]tu'lu'.} = There are children around here. [the {lu-} is
> optional]
> (here child-PL 3PL>3SG-find-PASS)
Your analysis is incorrect. In {wIleghlu'}, "we" {maH} are the object,
not the subject. In English passive voice sentences the subject and
object move around, but there is no equivalent in Klingon. The verb
prefix {wI-} does not indicate a first-person plural subject when on a
verb with {-lu'}:
Since the subject is always the same (that is, it is always
unstated), the pronomial prefixes (section 4.1.1) are used in a
different way. Those prefixes which normally indicate first- or
second-person subject and third-person singular object (vI-, Da-,
wI-, bo-) are used to indicate first- or second-person object.
(TKD 4.2.5)
With no subject to a verb with {-lu'}, it's hard to see what the verb
would nominalize into. What is a "thing which does" if the verb says
there is no specific thing which does?
--
SuStel
http://www.trimboli.name/
